| ▲ | deadbabe 8 hours ago |
| Anecdotally we haven’t hired junior engineers in over a year and do not plan to. |
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| ▲ | throwyawayyyy 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I'm about to get a junior engineer to work with at my Big Tech company. This used to be normal, it's now slightly extraordinary. I've not worked with a junior engineer in literally years. Even typing this, I think: this must be hyperbole, it's true though. |
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| ▲ | a34729t 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Us either, at least any team I work with (reasonably large public software company worth several hundred billion dollars) |
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| ▲ | ttoinou 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Anecdotally I hired a junior and it was a net loss |
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| ▲ | throwaway4233 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Wouldn't you be losing out on the fresh ideas and perspectives new entrants into this field brings ?
I had read "Valley of Genius: The Uncensored History of Silicon Valley" a few months ago and most of the disruptions in the industry came from engineers who brought in fresh perspective or had the energy to try something different. |
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| ▲ | deadbabe 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | I’m gonna be blunt: most of their ideas will probably be stuff they read off an LLM anyway and just reworded. All our good ideas come from senior level people drawing from a rich history of experience and bold vision. | | |
| ▲ | throwaway4233 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Even if juniors most of their ideas are exactly like you said, they would have more energy and almost no trauma from past experiences to experiment more. While experience is important, it also creates blind spots as it's quite hard to have every experience about a particular topic unless you have been working on that tool/stack alone for decades. |
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| ▲ | 1270018080 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Same. I don't think it will happen for as long as my company exists. |
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| ▲ | tokioyoyo 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Same here. |
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| ▲ | akmarinov 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | +1 Used to have an “academy” where we pick people up from first year in uni and get them to learn from zero. Haven’t had one in ~3 years, no plan to. Also half the company was downsized. No hiring in 3 years, cutting tons of people and tons of people leaving, we’re now at a point where in the tech i work in, our most junior person is a senior with about 10 YoE | |
| ▲ | fer 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Here we are, and it's big tech. Had quite a few interviews scheduled over the last few weeks, literally more than in the last 2 years. |
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| ▲ | onraglanroad 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
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| ▲ | echelon 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Stop the moral grandstanding. This is a legitimate observation. We're also not hiring juniors. Only seniors who can use LLMs and evaluate the outputs. | | |
| ▲ | matheusmoreira 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Only seniors who can use LLMs and evaluate the outputs. I'm just a hobbyist but I've gotten pretty good at using LLMs and evaluating and refining their outputs. Think there's still space in this industry or is it hopeless? | | |
| ▲ | echelon 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | While you should always remain grounded and know what you don't know, don't ever self-select yourself out of things. (Some things require credentials, but notwithstanding that, there are entirely new jobs and opportunities being created constantly.) While I would expect someone to know algorithms, data structures, distributed systems, and have good taste and pragmatism for both eng design and office politics, that doesn't mean you can't learn those things. You absorb them the deeper you go and the more frequently you encounter them. There are no real rules of the universe, and you're only here for an infinitesimally short time. As long as you're not hurting anyone, break the rules. | |
| ▲ | deadbabe 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It’s a bad look these days IMO to say you have no real classical training but you picked up an LLM and now you think you know what you’re doing (for a job interview). In the past, people without formal training had to learn things the hard way and projects were proof enough that they understood the fundamentals, but now there is no way to reasonably distinguish between such people and a heavy LLM augmented user. In our company we will likely place more importance now on full four year CS degrees as a signaling mechanism of candidate quality. Keep it a hobby and build stuff you like. |
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| ▲ | rvz 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Glad we were never "juniors" either, nor would we ever hire them. Here is the reason: We just layoff the expensive engineers and offshore all our work to very cheap remote staff engineers (at least 2 in Mumbai), give them the Claude chatbot to do the work of 20 engineers. So now we have reduced our costs by 90%. No need for juniors at all. | | |
| ▲ | echelon 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | What's with these attitudes? The world is changing rapidly. There's a very large chance you and nobody else here will have a software job. | | |
| ▲ | rvz 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | You are not going far enough given that the world is changing faster than you can hire seniors. So why wait? Why not go further by spinning up hundreds of Claude agents without the need to hire any engineers? You just manage them. Or even at least offshore that job to a very cheap staff engineer with more cost savings? |
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