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felooboolooomba 12 hours ago

There was also a very peculiar train crash in the UK just a few days ago. A train hit a stationary train. That shouldn't really happen in this day and age. Sabotage was the first thing that came to my mind.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gy60gg6k5o

ablation an hour ago | parent | next [-]

No, sabotage doesn't hold up. The thing that rules it out is the braking, or rather lack of it. Passengers reported no screeching and no sudden deceleration before impact, which means the driver thought the line ahead was clear. Tampered track or an obstruction or some kind of remote hack (getting into the realms of fantasy there) would normally give him something to react to. This entirely fits a missed signal or a signalling/protection failure.

It also feels like "a train hitting a stationary one shouldn't happen", but that's the textbook rear-end-after-a-SPAD scenario - e.g. Ladbroke Grove. No official has hinted at foul play either. Everything so far points to an accident in the signalling chain or faulty TPWS. But the interim report is due in two days so we'll see more then.

beejiu 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, and just yesterday a passenger train was routed into the path of a freight train due to some points failure. It does make you wonder. https://www.railmagazine.com/news/points-failure-results-in-...

6LLvveMx2koXfwn 11 hours ago | parent [-]

The trains heading for each other was not a direct result of the points failure but a direct result of the manual operation of the points after the failure. Everything was on go-slow so no risk of collision. This was human error.

OJFord 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Maybe. OP isn't saying it's necessarily malicious interference though.

Blahah 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Not a stretch to imagine that it is though. Germany has some very effective radical vandals who make statements by interrupting infrastructure.

wolfi1 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

could still be incompetence, one newspaper says an update has gone wrong

12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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section_me 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The UK buys most of their trains from Deutsche Bahn (German Rail) and just brands them differently.

British person living in Berlin.

ahartmetz 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Deutsche Bahn doesn't manufacture rolling stock. They buy it from Siemens, Stadler, Talgo, Alstom etc...

Edit: AFAIK, some of it - mainly high-speed trains - is designed according to DB specs and subsequently offered under a new name (and with changes) to other train companies. For example DB ICE 3 (manufactured by Siemens) / Siemens Velaro.

SiempreViernes 11 hours ago | parent [-]

You can probably buy some of the older rolling stock from DB thought.

ahartmetz 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It does happen occasionally, but DB tends to run, maintain and sometimes upgrade its successful (~reliable and widely introduced) rolling stock until it falls apart or is grossly outdated (40+ years old). Rail passenger numbers are increasing, so there is no need to sell stuff to downsize.

The Flixtrain company uses 40+ years old IC (intercity) cars - they have no air conditioning and it's really loud inside with open windows, especially so in tunnels. That is the kind of stuff that DB sells.

LargoLasskhyfv 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Hrrm. Funny. I thought that those were so called "Eurofima", which I remember as fucking cold in summer, because then their AC were set at full blast, which was annoying at the times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofima_coach

Also no real opening of windows anymore, because early onset of https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druckertüchtigte_Schienenfahrz... <- meaning pressure protection against passing trains at high speeds, entering tunnels, and such.

bennofs 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There is even a website just for that: https://www.db-gebrauchtzug.de/r/gbzp/gbzp/home?session=2228...

11 hours ago | parent [-]
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gpvos 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Incorrect. They wouldn't fit in the tiny UK loading gauge (profile). UK trains are indeed variants of continental models, but made to custom size, and many (most?) of them in the UK.

ErroneousBosh 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Leide nicht.

Trains in Germany and the UK for main-line running both use 1435mm gauge. UK trains are not a custom size.

gpvos 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They are. Rail gauge and loading gauge are different concepts. Use Wikipedia.

phatfish 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Everything about UK rail is custom (apart from the gauge). Apparently it's one of the (many) reasons HS2 is such a mess.

They were trying to run trains faster than typical continental high speed lines, which meant custom design work that needs loads of additional testing and certification. Rather than just use the Spanish or French high speed designs.

dcel 10 hours ago | parent [-]

Max line speed of HS2 is 360km/h, with provision for 400 in some sections in future. This is entirely in line with many other modern HS lines. China’s been running regular 360km/h services for years.

This is a project with a 200+ year shelf life. Designing to 300 or less would have been short sighted, and many of the changes to accommodate such high speeds actually reduce costs in the long term (slab track, headroom to catch up delayed services, ability for one trainset to operate more services per day etc).

The cost overruns of HS2 are primarily from plain old poor project management, complex planning law and constant political meddling, not engineering decisions.

tonyedgecombe an hour ago | parent | next [-]

One of the drivers of cost has been the high speed part. It meant the route needed to be straight which meant more tunnelling to avoid certain areas. Lower speed track would have allowed them to route around problem areas.

bluGill 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

China has run at 360kmh before, but last I checked they mostly run slower.

Air resistance is a killer as you go faster. So for trains 300 is usually about the best compromise between energy use and speed. If you want to go faster a jet at altitude is going to be much faster at a better fuel efficiency. High speeds make sense for long distances.

gib444 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> Max line speed of HS2 is 360km/h, with provision for 400 in some sections in future.

That's already been reduced to 320 km/h under this year's "HS2 reset". Which I imagine in reality will be 300 km/h normally at most, with even lower speeds seen day to day

Interestingly the written report to the government stated "However, no railway in the UK, or globally, is currently engineered for 360 kph". Are you incorrect or did they forget to include China in their research?

Anyway, I thought these were last decade's talking points? I thought it was all about capacity now, not speed? Except I thought there were also rumblings about reducing capacity from the previous announcements? Hard to keep up...!

LargoLasskhyfv 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_gauge / Lichtraumprofil are different.

11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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gib444 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> The UK buys most of their trains from Deutsche Bahn (German Rail) and just brands them differently.

This is totally incorrect.

We buy our trains from French/Swiss/German/Spanish/Belgian manufacturers, or build them ourselves in eg Derby.

We do not buy our trains from DB.

gib444 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There was a GSM-R outage in the UK last month ago too [0]

[0] https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/nationwide-gsmr-outage-...