| ▲ | flax 8 hours ago |
| I'm probably in the minority, but I do not want a "connection" with a business. I want transactional interactions that actually work. That is something that AI is not giving us today. By design. Companies are not switching to AI customer service because it's better or cheaper for the same service. They are choosing to replace customer service with AI chat bots that simulate the customer service experience without actually providing the service part. |
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| ▲ | kentm 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > I'm probably in the minority, but I do not want a "connection" with a business. I want transactional interactions that actually work. Every time a business tries to make a "connection" its really just an avenue to exploit or manipulate me. I've never had them making a connection for my benefit (i.e. take a hit to their bottom line). I'm not asking for altruism but I am asking for them to drop the pretense and quit bullshitting me. |
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| ▲ | drob518 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Then they’re doing it wrong. That’s a faux “connection” that just serves the business and not you. I would bet that if you experienced true connection, you’d love it, but you’ve been scammed by fraudsters so many times that you are suspicious of anything that doesn’t feel strictly transactional. | | |
| ▲ | InvertedRhodium 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I’ll take “No true Scotsman” for $800 thank you Alex. | | |
| ▲ | AdieuToLogic 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > I’ll take “No true Scotsman” for $800 thank you Alex. One valid use of "true" means "genuine", "loyal", and/or "faithful". Thus making the sentence fragment "if you experienced true connection" tantamount to "if you experienced genuine connection." There are many businesses I frequent where I have a "true connection" with the people representing same, from well-known national chains to sole proprietorships. Asserting the existence of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy in this context is inapplicable. |
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| ▲ | jay_kyburz 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Even the first story in the article sounds gross and creepy to me "The team became mini-concierges. Every guest walked in to find someone who knew them — not in a creepy, surveillance-state way, but in the way a good friend remembers what you’re going through." I'm not going through anything. I just want some dinner. And to be clear, the only reason they are doing this is strictly transactional. Good friends don't ask you to pay the bill at the end of dinner. | | |
| ▲ | jay_kyburz 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I thought of an example of how this should work. My parents used to go to the same restaurant every Friday night, for many many years. A little chit chat at the register each visit, it doesn't take long before you actually enjoy seeing that person. I began to suspect they continued going just so they had an excuse to see their friends. You can't engineer these relationships, but you can encourage your staff to be open to a little chit chat. Make sure your team has the time and energy to be friendly. Your team has to be happy, and its needs to show. I have no problem with the idea that you are going fill your place with good vibes so people actually want to go and hang out there! | | |
| ▲ | marcus_holmes an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | We used to have a holiday home in Cornwall when I was young. My father used to have a pint or two at the local pub most evenings when we were there, and we were there 3-4 weeks every year. Eventually we sold the house and stopped going. My father happened to go back there about 15 years later, randomly on a road trip through Cornwall and thought he'd stop in for a pint for old times' sake. On walking through the door, the barman said "hello Simon, good to see you again, pint of the usual?". I wonder how many people call in to have a pint at the pub purely because of that barman. I wonder if that pub has survived the cull of British pubs purely because of that barman. | |
| ▲ | annzabelle an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | My parents go to a kitbar (wine bar with open kitchen and waiters/bartenders who cook) every Wednesday night and have for a decade. They know the staff and have friendly chats with most of the people who work that shift, and it's a nice break in the week for them to get to chat with some young people who aren't their descendants. I come along when I'm in town, and everybody seems happy and cheerful. People work that kind of job, as opposed to, say, data center technician (a big career in that area) because they don't mind making connections with strangers. | |
| ▲ | stephenhuey 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I also had an older relative who took me to a nice restaurant several years ago. He had gone to that same restaurant since the 1970s and even though it had changed names over the years, he usually asked for the same waiter, an older man who had worked there for decades. They had chatted about their kids and other things in life. Maybe they weren't the most intimate of friends, but I've felt this same desire in some coffee shops and restaurants, where I want to talk to the same employee again and catch up on at least a couple of things we've discussed before. Maybe we don't do that with every business transaction, but it's nice to experience every now and then. |
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| ▲ | trhway 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >Good friends don't ask you to pay the bill at the end of dinner. it goes both ways. Good friends aren't expected to be free-loaders. |
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| ▲ | sublinear 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Unless you can give a specific example of a "true connection", I don't think they would. To "go beyond their expectations" requires understanding what they expected to begin with. They just told you that they want a transaction, not a sales pitch or series of intrusions. Things are considered trivial when they do not fit that person's lifestyle. Doing a whole lot of "yes and", rough personality profiling, or goal guessing isn't going to cut it either. Many people just want to be left the hell alone. Many people have even shouted from the rooftops they'd pay absurd money to be left the hell alone. I guess nobody wants to make money, nor provide a "true connection". | |
| ▲ | danaris 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I mean, I feel like that's what kentm is saying. Businesses say they're trying to build "connection", but all they care about is getting customers to spend more and remain loyal to them. They don't care about connecting, which is why they will always fail. |
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| ▲ | netsharc 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You remind me of a hotel stay in Asia I had. After 10 minutes in the room, I get a WhatsApp message: "Welcome Mr. netsharc. How do you find the room?" (it was more verbose than this). It's from a business account which is the hotel (it's part of an international chain). I wanted to reply "Fine, but I don't want to talk to a bot. Leave me the hell alone." but thought it would upset the person on the other side since the country runs on politeness. I imagine if I did reply like that there'd be some profuse apologizing, to which I'd think "Yeah, yeah, whatever, just leave me alone.". All the businesses asking for a rating after I interacted with them also piss me off. Or worse, apps. I give them a bad rating on the play store with the text that the low score is due to the "Spam begging for app store ratings." | | |
| ▲ | torben-friis 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It is particularly bad when they use their workers as human shields. "If you are satisfied with my service please leave a 5star review, my name is Samantha, we get in trouble for less than 5 stars". | |
| ▲ | ValentineC 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > All the businesses asking for a rating after I interacted with them also piss me off. Singapore Airlines automatically emails passengers after a flight asking for a Net Promoter Score rating [1]. I have a feeling those ratings are mostly unseen, and cabin crew have chimed in that those ratings are unlikely to affect their promotions in any way. What does help with their career is qualitative feedback written in through their feedback form. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_promoter_score |
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| ▲ | bko 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > I've never had them making a connection for my benefit (i.e. take a hit to their bottom line). I have. Go to a car place, build a rapport and the guy will likely apply discounts to your order. Go to the same place, make sure they know you and they'll give you discounts or extras because they know you're a repeat customer. Many retail workers have some discretion. They're the front line workers. If you tell a manager at McDonalds that he's gotta listen to you yell for 15m to make the company an extra $10, that's not a trade they're willing to make. Hell he would even take it out of his own wallet if he had to (I would). The whole "businesses do everything for their bottom line" is just some MBA bs and not at all how real businesses work. | | |
| ▲ | dghlsakjg 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I feel bad for all the people in this thread that apparently have never had a business do something nice for them for the sake of doing something nice. I've had waiters throw in dessert because we had a good chat, store attendants give me free stuff because I mentioned a problem I had, even big chain employees will go above and beyond just because. All of this with no expectation of reciprocity. Really, I have concrete examples of all where the person helping had no reasonable expectation that I would come back. If your whole life is purely transactional, and no one is giving you extra, it's time to look at how you move through the world. The problem might be you. | | |
| ▲ | annzabelle an hour ago | parent [-] | | I have to wonder if there's something regional to this. I used to live in a walkable neighborhood in a southern city, and I had several workers and owners at the businesses on my block who were chatty and we got along well. I tipped a dollar for my coffee every time at a local cafe, and the baristas would give me free coffees or ring up my coffee as a refill. The staff and several customers would often get into chats and I made a few friends just from going to that cafe in the afternoons a few weekdays a week. |
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| ▲ | thadt 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > I do not want a "connection" with a business. That's because we don't make connections with businesses - we make connections with people. That one nice hair dresser. The pharmacist that goes out of her way to make sure my mom's medicines are right. A cashier that's just pleasant to talk with. Years ago I did most of my grocery shopping at Target. I cared almost nothing about Target the chain. Or Target the super store. I did care about Betty the checker and wanted to know how her grandkids were doing this week. |
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| ▲ | fnord77 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | this is the only worthwhile comment in this thread | | |
| ▲ | stephenhuey an hour ago | parent [-] | | We must turn back the tide on American microwave culture. Life isn't just about my time, my money...we share life with others, and life is so much better because of it. |
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| ▲ | stickfigure 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I invite you to watch this entertaining FortNine video about buying a motorcycle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbr3JZAXDxA "How to Rip Off the Dealership - Bastard Negotiating Tactics" Without giving too much away, I liked this approach so much that when I bought my last motorcycle, I found a Kenco-equivalent in the Bay Area. It was a fantastic buying experience and I'm so glad I did. High dollar purchases are stressful and a human touch, from someone that is genuinely interested in not only this sale but the next one, really helps. |
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| ▲ | dghlsakjg 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Plus, if you buy a bike from a place like that, and something goes wrong, you are almost guaranteed to have it made right without having to fight about it like at a big dealer. |
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| ▲ | hintymad 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Me neither. I just want a business to get my stuff done in a standard way. Clear pricing upfront and no haggling. No surprise. If I hire someone to take care my yard, then take care of the yard. The price is reasonable. The plants thrive. The lawn is green. The irrigation system just works and does not leak. Connection, what connection? |
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| ▲ | turtlebits 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | What is the standard way? There are details which requires having a conversation and a relationship. I certainly don't want a service to come early morning and wake up my kids or in the afternoon polluting the whole neighborhood with noise and fumes when I want to spend time outside. | |
| ▲ | coldtea 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Well, there's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn2933vMylY |
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| ▲ | Terr_ 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| An "accountability sink" [0] where a major feature of the system or machien is to try to disclaim any responsibility and cast blame into the void. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unaccountability_Machine |
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| ▲ | pjdesno 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Note that for the businesses mentioned in the article, the service is the product. I don't care about service at a gas station - I want to fill my tank, pay, and get out. It's different when I take it to the mechanic - it's a rather old car, and I appreciate them talking intelligently about what the options are and what repairs they would suggest. |
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| ▲ | newyankee 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If I was getting 8 $ burritos with clearly marked ingredients and total automation end to end, I would gladly work with such a variant of Chipotle as well, even if it cuts workforce by 80% in such a scenario. Frivolous employment maximisation with words like human connection do not make sense for survival necessities. It works better with discretionary spending |
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| ▲ | ygouzerh 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Definitely! One exemple is Grab, in all Southeast Asia: what people like is that the app is fluid, and will get you from A to B. There is no marketing like Uber did sometimes of like: "personal service, free water bottle", and it's still killing it. Of course, I personally always enjoy a chat with the driver, but many people I know prefer actually not talking. |
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| ▲ | fxtentacle 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The grab app shows un-skippable ads. And some taxis even have ads "based on your interests" playing on a TV in front of your seat. I found their "no marketing" ;) to be almost too much. | |
| ▲ | ValentineC 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I choose Grab mainly because I always have installed for GrabPay payments. Sometimes I use Gojek (often unloaded because my phone doesn't have much storage) because it's cheaper. I avoid first-party taxi apps because they're shit and do dumb stuff like charge a 10% surcharge for credit card payments. They could get away with it 20 years ago, but I'm so glad Uber, Grab, and all the others are eating their lunch. | |
| ▲ | elevaet 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Or Gojek! |
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| ▲ | fidotron 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > I want transactional interactions that actually work. One of the great lies of the modern world is that this actually happens. |
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| ▲ | bluGill 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I want a connection to quality products that last until they wear out (or are obsolete). Customer service is part of quality. |
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| ▲ | xxpor 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is the difference between the people on this site broadly and everyone else broadly. |
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| ▲ | QuantumGood 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Every conceivable idea or option is eventually "optimized" for profit, and its possible maximum value form and meaning lost. |
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| ▲ | Eridrus 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I dunno, I talk to the Doordash bot, it gives me a refund for the failed delivery because it didn't score me as doing fraud, I don't care there was no human involved. It's certainly an upgrade over the menu-driven approach that has no room for deviation. |
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| ▲ | pixl97 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yea, on the same note I've had to call the cable company for internet outages a few times recently and the AI system handled the situation well. A few times it was neighborhood outages that it saw. One other time the system reset the modem configuration and the system came up, and one time it saw the interface on the modem was receiving errors and switched me over to a human to send a truck. It really was much better than most cable related tech calls I've had. | | |
| ▲ | dghlsakjg 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | The real issue is that you have to contact them at all. It's been at least 5 years since I last got in contact with my ISP/cable provider. It took a few minutes for them to reply to my email (15 minutes on new years eve after hours) because a real human always replies. They can provide good service because the product is good enough to not need a call centre's worth of employees to deal with a queue of angry customers. |
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| ▲ | enraged_camel 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >> I'm probably in the minority, but I do not want a "connection" with a business. I want transactional interactions that actually work. I do want a connection. Because connection is what ensures that the transactional interactions continue to work outside of the "happy path". Connection is what ensures that you can return those expensive headphones you bought because extended use makes your neck hurt, even though the return window has passed. |
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| ▲ | greenie_beans 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| i love connecting with a bookseller at a local independent bookstore. or a bartender. or a server. etc. such a more interesting life if you connect with people at the businesses in your community |
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| ▲ | what 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > bartender, server You’re not connecting with them. They put on a smile and listen to you hoping for a tip. | | |
| ▲ | dghlsakjg 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | My wife is a bookseller. She doesn't get tips. She genuinely likes her customers... most of them anyways. Wouldn't like someone that thinks she's only doing it for money since she gets paid whether she's nice or not, but she would still be nice to them. Maybe some people really do take pride in their work. Worth trying sometime maybe? |
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| ▲ | dominotw 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| i dont know. I love basic humanity in my interactions. Thats why i eat at chick-fil-a and get coffee at starbucks. Not mcdonalds and dunkin donuts. Just make it pleasant and human. |
