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aboardRat4 8 hours ago

IRC's UI is horrible. (Like email.)

No wonder people don't want to join it.

(Saying that as someome who has his own bouncer.)

tjoff 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's not like you couldn't create an IRC-client with better UI than discord. Not as many features, but whatever strength discord has it is not UI.

Email really could have been great, but html and bad actors have made it so much worse than it needs to be.

crote 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In practice "better UI" would mean things like being able to trivially share files and images, or quote/link a specific message, or even making it easier to distinguish between users with similar nicks via their profile pictures. And those UI improvements are actually features which are integral to its protocol, so they can't easily be bolted on by a custom IRC client in a backwards-compatible way.

Literally every single modern chat platform has support for stuff like that, and for a reason. Discord became popular because it combined those modern chat features with the ability for every community to create its own private little "server" - while at the same time making it trivial to participate in multiple "servers" at once.

hnlmorg 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Quoting/linking is a client feature, not a server one.

IRC servers do also support profiles.

I think the real “issue” with IRC is that its users generally prefer the minimal UI. So there isn’t an high enough demand to make prettier UIs. But there are web clients that are a little less basic.

For what it’s worth, I’m in that minimal camp too. I wish I could still connect Slack to IRC.

roenxi 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'd guess the important feature for Discord is it is easier for the administrators to get hosted and online, but "you could create a client with a better UI than discord" is a terrible line of argument. People could do lots of things in the OSS world and they don't. I can't recall any IRC client that I have found as easy to use as the Discord client except - ironically given the topic - ChatZilla which died off years ago because Mozilla decided that extensions were more of a 2000s technology than something they wanted to support.

pmontra 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Email is OK. The point is that most conversations moved to other media (mainly chats) and so 90% of my mail is notifications, 9% is newsletters, 1% are real messages. They used to be 99%.

dariusj18 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I really wish Google's Wave went somewhere. It was the real solution.

esafak 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Which feature did you like most?

em-bee 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

try deltachat. it's essentially a chat client with all the features you would expect but using SMTP as the protocol.

amatecha 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

indeed, there is https://www.irccloud.com which is quite excellent!

prmoustache 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I am puzzled by this comment. IRC is a protocol, it is not a software and doesn't have an UI. IRC clients do, and they aren't all the same.

yason 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> IRC's UI is horrible. (Like email.) No wonder people don't want to join it.

I consider it a feature that acts as a filter.

bachmeier 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The entire reason Mozilla came into being is to do things like improve the user experience for IRC so we can keep the internet open. There has never been any other reason for Mozilla as an organization to exist.

loloquwowndueo 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Dunno man, it’s miles better than discord which bombards me with ads every single time I log in.

AlienRobot 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's been a while since I last used IRC, but afaik one of the issues with it was that servers revealed the IP address of users to every other user by default. Since the IP is geographic that's one piece of information you could use to doxx someone.

gordonfish 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

IP addresses aren't linked to a complete street address, and many times don't even show the right town, especially those on CG-NAT or a plain ol' direct public dynamic address. I have seen some IPs, like on AT&T and Comcast home Internet, showing a different state.

So in many cases, you don't need a VPN to prevent revealing your actual geographic location.

esseph an hour ago | parent [-]

And some IPs stick to users for over a decade, and over time the data pieces add up and connect the dots.

netsharc 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It'd be trivial (TM) for someone to make a web interface, and the connections would say "Connecting from some-data-center.aws-cloud.bl"...

bitbasher 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Libera gives all registered users a cloak to hide their ip.

dollylambda 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There are many ways to mask your "real" ip address, VPN being an easy start.

crote 6 hours ago | parent [-]

The fact that this is needed at all is a serious problem. Making people who aren't aware of some obscure details accidentally doxx themselves is incredibly user-hostile.

ekianjo 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

UI? Its a protocol.

setopt 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They probably meant UX, which is arguably similar between implementations.

47282847 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Like “the UX of HTTP is horrible”? Still doesn’t make any sense.

Discord could well run on top of IRC the protocol and be open to federation without any change of UX.

oriolid 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Netsplits, missed messages and bot wars over channel and nick ownership were an integral part of IRC UX, and they were direct consequences the IRC protocol. If Discord was run on top of IRC protocol, it would have the same. Discord would probably be its own network and the people who prefer IRCnet, EFnet or QuakeNet would never touch it.

progval 5 hours ago | parent [-]

> Netsplits

It's not inherent to the protocol. https://ergo.chat/ does not have netsplits (from having a single server) and https://github.com/Libera-Chat/sable replaces the server-to-server protocol to eliminate netsplits as well.

And even when not eliminated entirely, they are infrequent and barely visible on well-managed networks like Libera.Chat. Many chat platforms have more (and longer) outages than Libera has netsplits.

> missed messages

Solved by most server implementations using https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/chathistory

> bot wars over channel and nick ownership

Solved decades ago thanks to NickServ and ChanServ (though I'll admit they are ad-hoc additions on top of the protocol). And ~15 years ago we got native support for authentication (https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/sasl-3.1)

oriolid 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

So... Usually it's claimed that one of the advantages of IRC is that it doesn't depend on a single server, so using a single server feels a bit like cheating. Replacing the server-to-server protocol sounds a lot like it's not really IRC protocol any more. The chathistory link says "This specification may change at any time and we do not recommend implementing it in a production environment." right on top. And yes, NickServ and ChanServ exist on some networks and IIRC they were one of the major points in debates over which network is the best and which ones to not touch with a ten feet pole. A hypothetical IRC-based Discord-like service could have it.

FireBeyond 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I mean the word "Relay" in Internet Relay Chat was meant to refer to relaying between servers. Larger networks even had some hub servers that didn't allow users to connect at all, and existed to be server interchanges.

IRCv3 missed the boat by years. By 2016, when the working group was formed, IRC was already well past its glory years. Even then, it took til the 2020s before any major network fully adopted it. Because - and I say this as a nerd who held an O line on two of those major networks at one point in my life - a bunch of nerds got hung up on arguing about implementation specs rather than looking at features and functionality organically. Ironically, in the quest to avoid becoming a closed Discord/Slack/what-have-you ecosystem product, they needed a product manager to remind them that what they needed to build in that working group was an evolution to IRCv2, not endless arguments over the format of configuration files for server daemons, for but one example.

> And ~15 years ago we got native support for authentication (https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/sasl-3.1)

The IRCv3 WG was convened near the end of 2016, so 9 or so.

47282847 an hour ago | parent [-]

> IRCv3 missed the boat by years

Because people invested/wasted their energy into building proprietary silos instead.

luke5441 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

IRC doesn't have offline messages and standardized user accounts.

Just looked it up and there is IRCv3 to fix this, but idk what the state of that is.

FireBeyond 2 hours ago | parent [-]

"... not great".

IRCv3 was already late to the party and when I saw that the Working Group's mailing list was composed of lots of debates on formats for server daemon configuration files, it was clear many couldn't see the forest for the trees.

coldtea 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>Like “the UX of HTTP is horrible”? Still doesn’t make any sense

Sure it does, when all browsers have more or less the same, and the context makes clear we're not talking about the mere programmatic consumption of HTTP (like through some REST api).

"But it's a protocol and not a client" is pedantically irrelevant, given that the clients for that protocol all follow the same conventions. The parent already said they meant the UX of it "which is arguably similar between implementations".

Besides, protocols impose some concepts and models of interaction and consumption, which informs any UX created on top of them. So it's not like that client sameness is merely accidental and unrelated to the protocol either.

ciroduran 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It hasn't been the same since Comic Chat was discontinued

joeypickles 6 hours ago | parent [-]

I wish there was an article on the oral history of comic chat.

code_biologist 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What? I just want to share cat pics, video clips, and memes with my friends and respond to their stuff with not-inline emojis.

gsich 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's a skill check.

crote 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's gatekeeping. Don't be surprised when your pet project slowly dies because potential new contributors choose to join less hostile communities instead.

qweqwe14 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

Gud 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What’s wrong with IRCs UI?