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mik3y 5 hours ago

I really wanted to dislike the anonymous operator for the careless project (and the hilarious pomposity of the IRC subagent it spawned).

Then I imagined the real-but-unknowable chance it was all set up by some kid just getting into computers, just seeing what’s possible, getting excited by a much bigger world at reach — and remembered my own expensive mistakes with long-distance BBSes & the like.

I sorta hope for that, anyway. Curiosity is a beautiful thing.

TheDong 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm a little less charitable.

Curiosity is great, but agents do not learn, and telling an agent "scan the darkweb" is a way to avoid learning about the details, rather than to dig into things more deeply.

If instead they had just used a chat interface to ask "Where should I start", they'd more likely have got a link to the DN42 docs themselves, read them, and not hallucinated things like "color".

They might have asked "how much will this cost?" if they had to spin up the ec2 instances themselves, on advice from the agent.

The way you learn something is by doing it the manual way first.

You learn memory management by writing your own allocator, and then after that you go back to using malloc like normal, but with knowledge of how it works. You don't learn memory management by telling an agent to write an allocator.

Using an agent to give you links and point the way aids in learning, using it as an autonomous tool to do "gruntwork" you don't yet know how to do yourself will get in the way of learning.

Curiosity is beautiful, using agents to bother humans and avoid learning is somewhat less beautiful.

recursivecaveat 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah I'm less sympathetic when you are bothering other humans by spamming them and asking them to do legwork for you.

yvdriess 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Hanging out in programming language IRC channels (quakenet shoutout) makes you realize pretty quickly why experts in said channels and newsgroups are such irritable grumps whenever someone asks a question that smells like homework assignment.

I also grew to understand the value of people digging deeper into the underlying issue, instead of just answering "how do you do X in Y". The usual reaction was "I don't want to explain to you why I want to do it like this. Just tell me how to do this!"

ma2kx 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

At least he learnt not to provide an LLM presumably unrestricted access to his AWS account.

internet_points 2 hours ago | parent [-]

from OP:

> It's unfortunate to see that the operator's takeaway from this incident is that "next time a better agent is needed".

helsinkiandrew 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Then I imagined the real-but-unknowable chance it was all set up by some kid just getting into computers, just seeing what’s possible, getting excited by a much bigger world at reach

Perhaps people like this should be called "Bot Kiddies" or "Agent Kiddies" - in a similar way to "Script Kiddies" for 'hackers' using/doing stuff they don't quite understand

Overpower0416 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Everybody should learn from mistakes, especially the expensive ones. Though seeing the agent owner responding with using another agent and asking for donations, instead of taking responsibility, makes me think he didn’t learn much.

gnulinux 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Not only that, but they said "next time better model needed" as if that was their problem and not giving an AI agent a blank check... I mean AWS account access.

Schlagbohrer 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How did the theoretical child get hold of a credit card?

ano-ther an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Try here for example: https://danskebank.co.uk/personal/products/current-accounts/...

63stack 17 minutes ago | parent [-]

Did you read your own link? A parent has to apply for this.

Parent/Legal Guardian Identity Verification To confirm your identity, we’ll ask you to take:

    A live selfie of yourself, and
    A photo of your own ID document (Valid Passport or valid UK/ROI Drivers Licence)
victorbjorklund 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Because no 16 year old kid ever got to buy anything on a card before.

themafia 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

My parents let me fill my tank with gas. They wouldn't let me open an AWS account. Aside from that, if it is misuse of a parents card, then then answer is "chargeback."

l23k4 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why would a 16 year old not use their own card?

distances 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Would they be given their own credit card, or would it be under the parents? Over here minors can't enter into debt contracts like credit cards, so it'd be a direct debit until they are adults.

l23k4 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't think the type of the card really matters as long as the limits are reasonable.

> Over here minors can't enter into debt contracts like credit cards

In basically all of the western world minors can enter into debt contracts, but are generally not seen as particularly creditworthy.

distances 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> In basically all of the western world minors can enter into debt contracts, but are generally not seen as particularly creditworthy.

No, that's not legally permitted in many places. I was under impression that minors can't enter into debt contracts anywhere in EU, but that, too, was an incorrect assumption.

https://fra.europa.eu/en/publication/2017/mapping-minimum-ag...

I grew up in one of these "not under 18 even with parental consent" countries, so that coloured my view of the matter.

fauigerzigerk 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>In basically all of the western world minors can enter into debt contracts, but are generally not seen as particularly creditworthy.

Minors can't get a credit card in the UK. In fact, it's one of the government approved age verification methods for that exact reason.

well_ackshually 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Because 16 years old do not have a card with no spending limits, and with very low online spending limits. Most of those cards are even just for withdrawing

TheDong 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Spending limits don't particularly matter here.

AWS doesn't check if your credit card will be able to handle a $5k charge before letting you rack that up, and in fact AWS doesn't support setting any spending limit.

You just have to put in any valid credit card at all when you sign up, use AWS, and at the end of the month you'll have a bill. At no point does your credit card limit or a spending limit enter into things.

michaelmrose 3 hours ago | parent [-]

And again kids don't have credit cards

yeputons an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I got mine when I was 12, IIRC. Not a credit, of course, it was a debit card, but not all countries bother to differentiate between the two, it was just a “bank card”. And I believe it had a credit card BIN because all local banks did that to get more in processing fees.

l23k4 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

AWS accepts debit cards.

3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
michaelmrose 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Generally no they don't because they have very limited ability to enter into agreements in the US. It was almost certainly an adult.

Lvl999Noob 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Isn't USA famous for letting parents take out credit cards on their newborns and pushing them into debt even before they learn to walk? I recall seeing at least a few snippets of movies and TV shows showing that.

martheen 2 hours ago | parent [-]

If you mean parents using their children SSN to open a credit card, this is because US banking system is always decades behind the rest of the world, so they just accept the number blindly even though technically the children aren't allowed to open a loan yet, being minor.

In theory once the child grows up and shocked that their credit score is ruined, they can file a police report to wipe the debt, but that also means their parents will go to jail, a large risk considering they're likely not in a good physical/mental health in the first place.

Other countries solved this by either having national ID or a working KYC system.

Ekaros an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why wouldn't debit card work as well? You can get those while underage.

3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
altairprime 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sometimes your purpose in life is to serve as a lesson to others. https://despair.com/products/mistakes

I learned very rapidly from my local BBS networks that some people incurred extraordinarily large long distance bills dialing out of region. Wouldn’t have learned that the easy way if someone hadn’t learned it the hard way first.

themafia 2 hours ago | parent [-]

There was often a little table at the front of the white pages which would help you work out what the rate would be for any particular long distance call. In the Midwest you could get relatively cheap rates to BBSes several states away, as long as you were up at 2am.

V__ 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Can a kid set up an AWS account? Are there no checks?

Wouldn't the contract be void for anyone underage anyway?

fc417fc802 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If a child goes through the checkout at the grocery store with cash, can the parent march in and demand a refund because "he's underage so the contract is void"? A credit card was used. Why should aws care about the details? (Other than the potential for the card to be stolen ofc.)

dannyw an hour ago | parent [-]

Obviously the specifics vary by jurisdiction, but usually contracts that are 'necessary' (e.g. grocery store purchases) or beneficial to the minor (e.g. an employment agreement) cannot be voided simply because someone is under 18.

The further you go away from this line, e.g. a mortgage, the more likely a court of law would void the contract. As with many things in law, the specifics (if it makes to trial) is case-by-case and "it depends"; with settlement being generally based on a party's estimated chances of succeeding/costs should it go to trial.

l23k4 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Can a kid set up an AWS account?

Yes

> Are there no checks?

No

>Wouldn't the contract be void for anyone underage anyway?

Typically not

epolanski 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> some kid just getting into computers, just seeing what’s possible, getting excited by a much bigger world at reach

Nothing about this post ever gave me the smallest hint that this was any way related to a kid exploring computing world.

ZeWaka 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Especially the part where they're asking for Ethereum.

IshKebab 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A kid with a credit card?

csomar 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Honestly, kids (heck people below 23) shouldn't be allowed an AWS account. AWS also should have a strict cap on usage that's not "thousands of dollars". It's interesting they are yet to be regulated or sued for that. Having a web app where you can mistakenly (even without AI) click a button and get charged tens of thousands of dollars and only know that days later should have been unacceptable.

dannyw 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I couldn't disagree more. I was playing around with AWS when I was probably 14 years old, with a credit card from my parents with consent, and a strict budget and the understanding that if I mess up and overspend, I'm getting disciplined.

I learned a lot of stuff about networking, how AWS works (VPCs, IAM, CloudWatch, etc) from trial and error, and hobby projects like personal websites (free tier), hosting a Minecraft server, etc.

Being too overprotective can have negative consequences on folks who are responsible. One of the things I love about the technology and internet communities, etc is that you're mostly judged based on how you act and behave; not your age or other visible characteristics.

csomar an hour ago | parent [-]

> strict budget

How does that work in the case of AWS? Are you confusing alerts to caps?

dannyw 38 minutes ago | parent [-]

I meant a strict budget given by my parents (and I could ask for more with justification). One of the valuable lessons I have learned is that there's no spending caps on AWS, but it taught me to set up billing alerts :)

stnikolauswagne 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Im kind of struggling with this logic, because a conscious choice was made to engage with AWS, AWS having opaque billing and the ability to provide a huge amount of compute (even at high cost) at the click of a button should be known to anyone who did his research on providers.

In my mind I could see a true tradeoff to removing the ability to do this. If I'm in a critical situtaion where, say, my service is on the cusp of failing because my revenue 100xed in a short while I know I could just go to AWS, put in some data and buy enough compute to survive as a business.

csomar an hour ago | parent [-]

Anyone can make mistakes at some points and it's not like AWS UI/offerings make it any less confusing.