| ▲ | ProllyInfamous 6 hours ago |
| Please don't get a motorcycle: A good felon buddy of mine has been out now for 4 years. He slowly built a car repair business, with steady clientele, and got his life back on track – including reasonable sobriety and a steady relationship. He and his girl would cruise around often, enjoying their newfound happiness. Last week he totaled his Harley and his body (destroyed bike, multiple broken bones). Total reset. He now gets PTSD whenever a Harley revvs by passing... physically cannot work. Please don't get a motorcycle. |
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| ▲ | rileytg 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I’m sorry if i’m missing something… what does this have to do with his story other than addiction and felony? (fwiw i agree regardless, don’t get a motorcycle, lost too many friends to accidents or the following addiction) |
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| ▲ | ProllyInfamous 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The wrecklessness which brings some people into prison, is what brings them & others lusting towards motorcycle culture, often shortly upon release. Something something something anti-social something. I'm just offering real-world advice after witnessing all the broken bones and jerked roadrash upon this tattoo'd convict's broken body. Shouldn't be alive. | | |
| ▲ | coldtea 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Billions of people have a motorcycle globally... Some anecdote from a chronically motorcycle adverse culture (US) doesn't mean a whole mean of transport is invalid... | | |
| ▲ | estearum 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Most people riding motorcycles globally are not doing so on busy freeways at 60mph+ multiple times per day, surrounded by 2.5 ton vehicles with poor visibility traveling 60mph+ Putzing around an urban center on a cafe bike is not what it means to "ride a motorcycle" in the US. | | |
| ▲ | whartung 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'd much rather be on a freeway at 60+ MPH surrounded by 2.5 ton vehicles with poor visibility than riding an urban street. New riders are rightly intimidated by the freeways (they're fast, they're big), but they're far, far safer than the street with all of the starting, stopping, hard corners, folks turning onto the street, and, of course, the king of bike slayers, the "I didn't see them" left turn. Not to mention all the junk on the streets: the oil, anti-freeze, gravel, wet painted turn arrows. When freeways become unsafe is when the loose nut behind the handlebars decides to wick it up and just "go around all of these big slow things". But that's not the freeways fault. First year/10,000 miles is the hardest. But the foundational rules apply: Wear the gear, slow down, don't ride impaired (drunk, high, tired...). Lightning strikes, it sucks. But, anecdotally, my worst motor vehicle injury was while a passenger in a modern car when my friend drove into a left turning vehicle. "Fender bender", "no biggie". Chronic, notable, back pain ever since. Worst than anything I've ever suffered on a motorcycle. | | |
| ▲ | estearum 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You're describing American cities, while GP (to whom I was responding) was clearly describing the huge number of foreign cities (e.g. SE Asia) where motorcycles are the dominant form of urban transit. The relevant factor is that a street where motorcycles, cycles, pedestrians, and small/slow cars are dominant – all of which move at generally slow speeds – is of far, far, far less danger than a street (freeway or not) where the primary form factor is large automobiles traveling quickly. You're describing American cities, while GP (to whom I was responding) was clearly describing the huge number of foreign cities (e.g. SE Asia) where motorcycles are the dominant form of urban transit. The relevant factor is that a street where motorcycles, cycles, pedestrians, and small/slow cars are dominant – all of which move at generally slow speeds – is of far, far, far less danger than a street (freeway or not) where the primary form factor is large automobiles traveling quickly. > First year/10,000 miles is the hardest This is typical Intermediate Syndrome. The median rider involved in a motorcycle accident has nearly 3 years of experience. No, road defects, obstacles, and weather are almost never the cause of motorcycle accidents. | | |
| ▲ | decimalenough an hour ago | parent [-] | | I lived in Bangkok and saw 4 motorcycle accidents or their immediate aftermath. Even in perpetually jammed third world megacity traffic, the motorcyclist always loses to the other vehicle, in several of those cases almost certainly fatally. |
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| ▲ | mothballed 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | First 10k are the hardest but the tail effect of an experienced rider is what gets you. I had crashes in my first 10k but my worst were after riding for decades when I would just randomly hit a tiny oil slick going 70+mph while using zero brakes, zero turning, and zero extra acceleration. Just get thrown low-side due to randomness of having to watch traffic while not noticing a tiny oil slick with enough random variations in the road that it immediately throws the bike when traction regains. |
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| ▲ | qmr 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > chronically adverse culture That's the thing. On a bike you can do everything right and still lose. California is one of the safer places to ride given how many bikes are here and I've still had too many near misses as a trained, experienced, and conservative rider. Most people put 1-2k miles a year on their bikes, when I was riding often I put on 2-3k/ month. | | |
| ▲ | coldtea 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | >That's the thing. On a bike you can do everything right and still lose. Same with anything in life. Same with a car, just less so. Of course you could also stay at home, wearing protective bumper suit 24/7 (and can still die from any number of things anyway). At some point there's a tradeoff people make. Some people make it where the tradeoff slider says "motorcycle", rather than stop at "car". And I'm not talking a tiny niche, but about 1-1.2 billion people globally. | | |
| ▲ | Falimonda 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The risk is much much much higher with a motorcycle - especially in the US where most car drivers have next to zero experience sharing the road with motorcycles let alone driving a motorcycle. Saying it's the same thing is absurd here. - Licensed motorcycle driver | | |
| ▲ | mothballed 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Vs what though? We're talking about a felon and addict channeling their risk-taking energy. I rode motorcycles exclusively as my transport in my 20s and it was one of the main things that checked use of intoxicants. You need your balance for a motorcycle and it uses the same risk-taking energy that many people would otherwise channel into drugs and destruction. That is to say, those comparing car v motorcycle are doing the wrong comparison here. You'd be evaluating (car + substitute activity of drugs/crime/etc) vs. motorcycle -- rather than merely car v motorcycles. |
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| ▲ | paulryanrogers 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Same with a car, just less so. So not the same? > Of course you could also stay at home, wearing protective bumper suit 24/7 Quite an extreme and useless comparison. There's a large spectrum of transportation and entertainment options between motorcycle riding and home bound bumper suit at all times. | |
| ▲ | estearum 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yeah exactly, same with BASE jumping or wingsuiting. It's the same risk dynamic as driving a car to work, just more so. Of course you could also stay at home, wearing protective bumper suit 24/7 (and can still die from any number of things anyway). |
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| ▲ | embedding-shape 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > That's the thing. On a bike you can do everything right and still lose. Same with a car, or anything really. The point of parent stands, globally there are billions of people going through their lives with motorcycles as their main vehicles, yet aren't involved in any life-changing accidents. Some places are more dangerous than others, probably places that doesn't have this already motorcycle-heavy culture, like other countries in the world, has a higher incident rate and more severe accidents, as drivers aren't aware of how motorcycles usually operate. | | |
| ▲ | qmr 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Please don't say accident when you really mean crash. Promote language of responsibility and accountability. | | |
| ▲ | embedding-shape 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Most crashes, but not all, are accidents. I think I'm talking about accidents, not crashes. | | |
| ▲ | qmr an hour ago | parent [-] | | Someone is always at fault. Look into auto lobby and this "accident" term history. Use the language of accountability. |
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| ▲ | robobro 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I live in Indonesia. We have the highest per-capita rate of bike ownership in the world. I have seen what happens to motorcycle riders when there are accidents and I have seen what happens to car drivers when there are accidents. I won't get into the gory details but I avoid using bikes as much as possible. | | |
| ▲ | embedding-shape 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | And I've seen what happens when pedestrians get hit by a car going way too fast, it sucks, and is horrible, but also besides the point. Not to say one has worse/better accidents, motorcycles accidents obviously has a much higher fatality and serious injuries risk, hard to deny. | | |
| ▲ | ProllyInfamous 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | >but also besides the point. Hard disagree. Both pedestrians and motorcyclists are raw to the elements, entirely. At least when on roadways an automobile provides a chassis/rollcage. | | |
| ▲ | qmr an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | When vulnerable road users are killed in other countries there is strict liability. That is, the driver is assumed at fault unless proven otherwise. In America it's the perfect crime. "I'm so sorry officer I never saw them." Case closed Lou. | |
| ▲ | embedding-shape 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You disagree with me agreeing with what you just wrote about it being more dangerous to go with motorcycles? The "besides the point" is that the point I was raising was how common motorcycles are, globally. Is that what you're disagreeing with? |
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| ▲ | qmr 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Crashes. Not accidents. | | |
| ▲ | coldtea 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Accidents. Not everything is under the driver's control, nor does it happen due to their intention (or even necessarily due to their lack of attention or whatever). There's a reason the term accident is used (I know at least 10 countries where the meaning is the same). |
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| ▲ | stickfigure 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Get a dirt bike. 10X more fun than street riding and much safer. |
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| ▲ | calmbonsai 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The issue is the bodily risk of injury or death compared to nearly any other routine transportation or sporting activity: https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/road-users/motorcy... | |
| ▲ | newaccountman2 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | A fairly large % of those people--I would wager most, personally--would probably rather have cars, but can't afford to. | | |
| ▲ | klibertp 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Probably depends on the locale. In Europe, riding a moped in a big city is a way to drastically cut your commute compared to driving a car. It's not exactly dangerous when all the other road users are moving at 5m/min, and being able to just skip all the traffic jams is a godsend. By car, my trip to the office was about 45min - it was 15min on a moped, a stop at a shop for some snacks included. And that's with riding speed never exceeding 50km/h. I had two accidents during my 5 years of commuting, and both times I only got minor scratches and had to replace my shoes. Both happened at speeds a determined bicycle rider could achieve, but I suspect I wouldn't be as well protected on a bicycle (both the machine itself and the protective gear tend to be much lighter there than on a moped). If I needed to do that again, I'd buy a model with two wheels at the front, which would have prevented both accidents - though I'm not sure if added stability wouldn't encourage me to ride faster. So it's pretty specific, but if you're somewhere where driving culture is not too cutthroat, the roads can support single-track vehicles, and the traffic rather than actual distance is the limiting factor - owning a bike can be an objectively better option. | | | |
| ▲ | komali2 8 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | And thank God for it. If every scooter rider in Taipei had a car, the city traffic would move a meter a day. It's also about convenience, btw, not just cost. It's basically impossible to park a car here. Scooters are also difficult but at least possible. A huge chunk of people here just take public transit now, as it should be. | |
| ▲ | sgt 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm a motorcyclists. We usually refer to the smaller bikes as "motorbikes". Two wheels in the west is usually a hobby. In other parts of the world it might be a necessity, they don't do it for the pleasure. A lot of people forget this. |
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| ▲ | senectus1 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | yeah I think you have PTSD from your friends accident. Not all bike owners and riders have a shady history or risk taking behavior (aside from riding a motrobike). |
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| ▲ | richardlblair 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | He's just pointing out that after putting so much work into getting their life turned around it can easy be ruined by indulging in high risk behavior. It's not bad advice, just unlikely to land. Thrill seekers seek thrills. |
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| ▲ | qmr 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Have you ever been on a motorcycle? Closest feeling you can get to flying and a helluva lot cheaper. Bike costs are line noise, (cheap!) planes I fly are better part of $200 an hour. I get what you're saying though. Barely been on bike since latest baby and wondering if I should just sell them for now. As much as I miss riding and wife misses riding with me, if the worst were to happen, yikes. |
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| ▲ | Waterluvian 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Closest feeling you can get to flying I’d say this is a strong case against getting one for anyone who has struggled with addiction. In my experience a part of the constant battle is a difficult relationship with sources of stimulation. | | |
| ▲ | phs318u 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I’ll second this. Back in the 90s when my addict brain was in full flight, I had a street bike for a year. There was not a single ride when I didn’t massively exceed the speed limit and ride recklessly. I loved it! Lucky to be alive. Lucky I had a partner who convinced me to sell it after our first child was born. Having said all that and despite being in recovery for many years... I still lust after the feeling of completely unfettered freedom being on a bike on an open road. Before I bought my bike a friend had warned me that once you ride, you’ll never not want to ride. He was right. | | |
| ▲ | stevepotter an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Same. I got spooked after a car pulled out on the country highway I was doing 160 on. Then ran out of money and sold it. I just rode my Dads Harley, first ride in 20 years. Was nice but I’m good. I have a longboard and a little hill once in a while gives me the occasional adrenaline rush I crave. | |
| ▲ | mothballed 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | With a child it's easy to always justify spending the money on something else. I also miss the machine's simplicity and ease to work on. While it probably sounds crazy, owning a tractor is almost as good. There are even more mechanical widgets to play with and it is dead simple and easy to work on like a motorcycle. I still miss the motorcycle but now I can actually do useful work while somewhat scratching the itch. |
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| ▲ | ProllyInfamous 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >Have you ever been on a motorcycle? Absolutely. Broken bones, and all. ---- >wondering if I should just sell them for now >if the worst were to happen, yikes Listen to yourself, Papa. ---- It's a young (dumb) man's game. | |
| ▲ | estearum 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Motorcycles are ridiculously fun but yeah, if you have anything in your life worth preserving or sticking around for, it's statistically a pretty awful decision. | | |
| ▲ | ProllyInfamous 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | >Motorcycles are ... statistically a pretty awful decision. This has been my favorite sentence (so far) in this discussion – whatever one's opinion is on motorcycling. Capital 't' Truth. ---- Thirty years ago, my mother gave me some small amount of money to NOT ride a motorcycle on roadways until after she died. Being young and broke, I took the money. stopped riding. After she died, I had aged just enough to realize that I didn't actually want to ride motorcycles on-road, anymore. Even after decades of wanting to... Somehow mama-up-there knew I'd eventually grow up, and it only cost her a few hundred dollars [to not have to witness my motorcycle accident (while alive, nor ever from-above)]. |
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| ▲ | spaqin 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Closest feeling you can get to flying and a helluva lot cheaper. Hah, that's funny for someone who got into FPV quadcopters recently and just passed his motorcycle license. I might have a problem. | | |
| ▲ | qmr 4 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I fly RC planes. I've done a bit of RC FPV with monitors never tried goggles or quads though. |
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| ▲ | sam1r 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Thanks for sharing! What are your thoughts on Roller Coasters? Hit a good theme park, ride maybe 6 with your eyes closed within a couple of hours. I can't help but feel riding one (Roller Coaster) is much more optimal than $200/hr flying a plane, and much safer than a motorcycle, even if you rented vs purchase one. | | |
| ▲ | cj 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > ride maybe 6 with your eyes closed That’s like telling a skydiver to go ride the Drop Tower (or whatever the ride is that drops you straight down). Not only is the experience different, but you aren’t in control. You aren’t controlling what’s happening. For me a big part of the enjoyment comes from being in control of the bike. Personally I would get zero enjoyment riding as a passenger on a bike. The thrill comes from riding and maneuvering the bike, not just going fast. | | |
| ▲ | qmr 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > For me a big part of the enjoyment comes from being in control of the bike. Yes. Chasing perfection every time. How smoothly can you roll out of this corner. How perfect a line can you take. How smoothly can you shift up or rev match and shift down. I don't think I've ever been a passenger. My young wife enjoyed riding with me before our youngest came. | |
| ▲ | card_zero 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | So an important invention that would save lives is a combined bumper cars + rollercoaster. Like the Witching Waves but faster. | | |
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| ▲ | qmr 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Great America gold pass holder for many years. It's a thrill for sure. Mostly on the smaller coasters thee days because of the kids. |
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| ▲ | dylan604 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I've ridden a bike and I've also jumped out of an airplane. One of these is a lot closer to flying than the other, and it's not the one you suggested. | |
| ▲ | 05 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | EUC or FPV are closer, FPV is also safer.. |
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| ▲ | jusgu 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| if you do, I’d recommend taking motorcycle safety courses on a regular cadence in order to practice your skills. even if you’re a regular rider it’s great to learn the limits of your bike and do emergency maneuvers in a controlled environment there’s lots offered near the bay area (where I’m from) and they don’t cost that much for what you’re getting in return |
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| ▲ | sirsinsalot 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I ride. No way in hell I'd ride in the US. |
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| ▲ | gavinray 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That's horrible but also a stark reminder for how quickly life can change for any one of us... |
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| ▲ | ProllyInfamous 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Neither of us have health insurance (forty-something Americans -- USA! USA! USA!). My helpfulness towards him mostly knowing he has nobody else to help him (ER already stabilized him post-accident, plus another trip for sepsis). Also, I love dogs. This has been a very terrible and very real lesson in mortality. Wish we had some basic social safety nets for middle-aged unemployables (e.g. single-payer healthcare). | |
| ▲ | sergiotapia 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | True but a motorcycle is basically 100% given that you will crash and have bad injuries. | | |
| ▲ | ProllyInfamous 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There are old riders and there are bold riders... But somehow no old bold riders. | |
| ▲ | coldtea 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's hardly any given. You can just ride properly. In other countries they are a huge means of transport. | | |
| ▲ | estearum 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | True. If you ride properly, then everyone else on the road is not allowed to hit you by the laws of physics. |
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| ▲ | embedding-shape 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's a risky activity, yes, but lets not forget metropolitan areas in other countries are shock filled with motorcycles and most people live their entire life without being involved in any majorly serious accidents. | | |
| ▲ | estearum 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | You mean scooters traveling <35mph surrounded by other scooters traveling <35mph E.g. the most common motorcycle in Vietnam is the 110cc Honda Wave with a top speed under ideal conditions of ~60mph. It literally would not be called a motorcycle in the US. | | |
| ▲ | embedding-shape 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | No, I'm talking about motorcycles traveling ~50mph surrounded by other motorcycles, cars, trucks and whatever else goes on around and in metropolitan areas, even in countries in Europe. | | |
| ▲ | estearum an hour ago | parent [-] | | The cities that Americans travel to in order to experience quaint and whimsical urban environments? I don't think any city in Europe is as anti-human as your standard American metro, suburb, or small town. Also: European metro areas are full of two-wheeled not-motorcycles, like the Honda above. |
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| ▲ | mothballed 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | From time spent living in the Philippines I have no idea what they're even on about. Sometimes I watched the local news and it was absolutely plastered with endless mass death of motorcyclists. Life is just cheap in south east asia so when a gazillion people get splattered on their bike no one thinks too much about it, it's just the risk of doing the business. |
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| ▲ | windowshopping 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | 100% given? Lol |
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| ▲ | antonvs 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You could make a similar argument for bicycles. Apparently the numbers for bicycles are a bit better, even in adjusted terms, but still. They're very unsafe in general. |
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| ▲ | aziaziazi 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There’s a study demonstrating life expectancy of 3+ years for bicycle Paris commuters (2+ for public transport) compared to cars. They didn’t evaluate motorbike. The effect on physical and psychic health largely outweighs (sometimes to x30) the risk of accidents and pollution disease. (2012, french) https://www.ors-idf.org/nos-travaux/publications/les-benefic... | |
| ▲ | Esophagus4 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I lost a good friend, a cycling partner, when she was hit by a car. I think she was a Cat 3 or 4 racer. Talented rider. I haven’t ridden on the road since. Just no joy in riding anymore if it just takes one careless individual on a cell phone… Every so often I think about linking up with a group ride again or even going to a spin class, but I just don’t see the fun in it anymore. | | |
| ▲ | ProllyInfamous 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | >I haven’t ridden on the road since. It's laughable how proud some cyclists become when they think a painted stripe will somehow protect them from cellphoned sharks. Obviously US bicycling infrastructure is laughably dangerous, and nobody deserves full-blame for exercising their legal rights upon roadways -- but e.g: biking up Lookout Mountain's shoulderless 2-lane highway is. stupid.ly common. These are tourist roadways winding through a mountainrange – are you cyclist's suicidal, or just hubric? Nobody knows where they are, and your dumb_ass is in the blindcurve going 2mph. Your legal right #RIP | | |
| ▲ | Esophagus4 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Indeed. I sometimes lament that I wish I could ride in a group again, but it’s such a hurdle to get over mentally for me. It is a lot of fun having camaraderie with similarly skilled riders hammering it out in the big ring for two hours, but just never have been able to get back to that place where I’m comfortable enough to do it. Edit: oh, rereading your comment… my friend was not at fault in her crash. She was a careful rider just out for a spin and happened to cross paths with the wrong idiot who was distracted and veered onto the shoulder. I was expressing sadness that that is all it took to end her life. | |
| ▲ | trumpdong 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | People do advocate for separated bike paths and concrete barriers between bike lanes and car lanes. |
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| ▲ | zozbot234 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's a lot easier to ride recklessly on a motorcycle than an ordinary bike. I suppose mopeds/motor scooters (especially electric ones) are the sensible middle-of-the-road option. | |
| ▲ | xvedejas 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I do wonder how much to trust averages on these statistics. I observe that I am much more risk averse than the average cyclist in my city. Perhaps my risk is really much lower, conditional on that knowledge? | |
| ▲ | andoando 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I am very risk averse person and I won't ride a bike in LA. In a city with proper infrastructure I would love to. | |
| ▲ | Der_Einzige 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | In both cases the reasons often come back to the average motorcyclist and bicycle rider abjectly REFUSING to learn or respect road laws. I live in a non-California state and I'm shocked whenever I see a motorcyclist who doesn't illegally lane split, who maintains a standard following distance (ideally 3 car lengths on an interstate), etc. Plus, most of them aren't even good at choosing leather jackets (not enough schotts or even made in Japan actual horsehide, lots of slop non-protective because most of these people are poor from the Harley purchase) and they don't wear proper protective heavy bottoms (i.e. leather/kevlar pants or HEAVY selvedge denim like 25 oz+). Many don't wear helmets because doing so might make them look like "fairies" to their friends in the outlaw biker gang. Similarly, half or more of the cyclists in your average complete streets/walkable cities liberal area either 1. actually don't have a drivers license and are thus oblivious to road laws when they routinely get on the road, 2. refuse to use a helmet/put lights on at night/hand signal when turning, and 3. refuse to use perfectly good empty sidewalks (yes its legal here to bike on the sidewalk) to cycle on when possible. I see this shit all the time, and I understand why they end up as roadkill time-and-time again. Keep winning Darwin awards. My heart goes out to those who legitimately did everything right and ends up squashed anyway, but the myriad number of idiots ruins it for the victims. I actually don't know which makes me more scared to see on the road, a clapped out Nissan/dodge, a Harley rider, or a cyclist. At least the cyclists and nissan drivers are probably young and thus far more alert than the average geriatric who thinks they're so cool for owning the worlds most gaudy motorcycle. | | |
| ▲ | caconym_ 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah man, it's the cyclists who are the problem, right? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39986875/ | |
| ▲ | sokoloff 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > maintains a standard following distance (ideally 3 car lengths on an interstate) 3 car lengths is a ridiculously too close following distance at freeway speeds. | |
| ▲ | ProllyInfamous 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I grew up riding dirtbikes in a non-helmet-required US state. >Many don't wear helmets because doing so might make them look like "fairies" to their friends in the outlaw biker gang. I now live in a state which requires helmets for all riders. This is a good idea – for exactly the reason you stated. |
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| ▲ | mgambati 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| HD riders are known for not using decent safety equipment and that bullshit open helmet or none. A freaking motorcycle with 300+ kilos moving ate highway speeds or more. |
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| ▲ | ProllyInfamous 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | He had a fully-enclosed helmet, was wearing leathers and boots, and has years of experience. Was legitimately sober (I talked with him right before he left). One hand now looks like a grimreaper's bones, sticking out from blood-caked jerkybits. ---- Certainly speed was a factor but isn't that why ya'll ride? | | |
| ▲ | mgambati 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Well, I don’t speed. Had a accident once that made me learn the lesson. |
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| ▲ | hollerith 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It's only been a week; right? |
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| ▲ | ProllyInfamous 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Right; he is fucked up. Girl is now gone, having caught charges herself (stabbed him because he refuses most pain killers and is in a lot of pain right now//ashole). So sad to see; I am walking his dogs; last time I saw him I said "I am just worried that this will make you spin out, again." Definitely helped me continue deciding not to get a motorcycle, myself. |
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| ▲ | jeron 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| as someone who just got back from a nice motorcycle group ride: lol |
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| ▲ | qmr 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I don't see the appeal of group rides myself. Always seems to be some stupid shit happening. Half of the group rides I see are to "honor" or "remember " a rider who died doing something stupid as well. | |
| ▲ | ProllyInfamous 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Stay safe, young grasshopper. You can be the best rider in the world and still have a bad day/week/month/year/life. | | |
| ▲ | PenguinCoder 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Can never predict your future. Enjoy what you will, when you can. I was in a motorcycle accident in 2021, TBI, hospitalized for 3mo, induced coma, and rehab for 9 months after. I am back on the horse. It is just a zen and still relaxing time, albeit more anxiety while riding, than before. Thankful I can still ride, and I do. | | | |
| ▲ | coldtea 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | And you can be the best car driver and still sway off or have some idiot crash into you head-on or miss a red light... | | |
| ▲ | qmr 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | At a minimum you're belted in surrounded by a cage. More likely you're belted in your cage and surrounded by airbags. Apples to orangutans. | | |
| ▲ | ProllyInfamous 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | >surrounded by a cage THIS is the major difference, protecting even the best motorcyclist's abilities. Some US highways are posted at 85mph [137km/h] – unprotected flesh doesn't stand a chance! | | |
| ▲ | klibertp 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Some US highways I'm sorry, but from a European perspective, this is the problem, not bikes. If your roads and driving culture encourage driving a tank for safety, that's a bit less than ideal. I commuted to work for 5 years on a moped. I never used a highway, almost never exceeded 50km/h, and had 2 accidents during that time; both resulted in just a few scratches and bruises. In another post, you said: "maybe speed was a factor" - actually, it's the only factor. If you never go too fast and never use roads where others may go too fast, you're safe - at least from life-altering tragedies. If, on the other hand, it's generally impossible to get where you want to without using highways, or the sheer distance forces you to step on it - then yeah, don't buy a motorbike. Just note that it's not the bike's fault! | | |
| ▲ | mothballed 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I lack the commenting impulse control to say this in a politically correct way so my apologies for the outrage that will follow, but to put it crudely there is someone in my extended family who became a retard after falling off their bicycle at roughly walking speed and with a helmet on. It's rare but you can easily die just from walking and slipping on a banana peel. While you're right about slower generally being safer, you should still treat it like a life-altering tragedy could happen at any time and like you're going 200 kph. | | |
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| ▲ | antonvs 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's a bit like saying "I don't wear a seatbelt when driving a car, but I've never had a problem." | | |
| ▲ | coldtea 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | The previous is a bit like saying "My pal got hurt in a car crash, never get a car". | | |
| ▲ | andoando 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | And then when almost every person says that, it turns out to be good advice. But we have statistics on this! |
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| ▲ | HNisCIS 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Motorcycles aren't invulnerable 3 ton steel tanks but the stats and anecdotes are deceptive. They're really not that bad if you're not a moron, even if you're mostly worried about other road users. The stat are wildly bimodal. ~30% of deaths involve drunk riding ~30% of deaths involve not wearing any helmet (let alone full face ECE 22.06 rated ones or any other gear at all) ~30% of deaths involve someone with no motorcycle licence. These aren't all mutually exclusive obviously, rather the Venn diagram probably looks rather...circular. The issue isn't so much everyone trying to kill you, you can fix a lot of the visibility issues and you have some additional options if someone is about to hit you. The problem is that two wheels make for a VERY dynamic system and you're managing two different brakes with weight shifting between two wheels based on your inputs. To that end ABS and TCS are absolutely huge, IIRC something like >60% safety improvement. Tldr don't buy an old retro bike with no safety systems and ride it drunk without a license or gear, you'll continue to pad the numbers. |
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| ▲ | lazyasciiart 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Isn’t this suggesting that the majority of motorbike deaths are licensed, sober, safety-geared riders? | |
| ▲ | ProllyInfamous 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I absolutely love statistics – be careful with inferrences, though. This rider (I described above) was ~sober ~helmetted (fully faced) ~licensed |
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| ▲ | odiroot 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Get a motorcycle. Definitely don't get a HD though. |
