| ▲ | Tracing a powerful GNSS interference source over Europe(arxiv.org) |
| 181 points by mimorigasaka 5 hours ago | 59 comments |
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| ▲ | yladiz 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Related Veritasium video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz23G_UXCGA |
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| ▲ | sippeangelo 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The theory that they broadcast communication on a band near GPS in order to discourage jamming of their early warning system sounds likely. Flexing the ability to jam GPS is pointless, since it's obvious that any state actor who has military satellites in orbit has considered this option or have the capability already. Therefore, the disruptions must either be regular tests of the capability, or just actual communication. Right? | | |
| ▲ | ordu an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | > The theory that they broadcast communication on a band near GPS in order to discourage jamming of their early warning system sounds likely. Is it? If it is an early warning system, could it be jammed briefly so it would fail to warn, couldn't it? It will be a global disruption of GPS, but a brief one and I'm sure people wouldn't be concerned of it due to other news. > Flexing the ability to jam GPS is pointless Do you believe that cutting sea cables is a sensible action? Or sending drones to neighbors? It is what they call "hybrid asymmetric warfare", I'm not sure how it is supposed to work, but presumably it may let them take over the world or something. Probably they just strive to normalize deviations, to boil frog slowly. When people become used to some stupid actions they widen their repertoire, until everything short of tanks crossing the borders became just normal news noise nobody reads twice. | |
| ▲ | rcxdude an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There is definitely value in having a demonstrated as opposed a simply supposed capability, though. And actions that are 'almost-certainly-but-not-completely-provably-us' is very much something Russia likes to do. (One question I would have about the comms theory is whether the amount of power being used would be reasonable for that use-case. Jamming tends to be much higher power than just communicating, but also GNSS signals are very low bandwidth as comms channels go) | | |
| ▲ | ralferoo an hour ago | parent [-] | | > One question I would have about the comms theory is whether the amount of power being used would be reasonable for that use-case. Jamming tends to be much higher power than just communicating, but also GNSS signals are very low bandwidth as comms channels go GPS is suprisingly low power. I believe the satellites themselves transmit between 20W and 50W, and in general the signal is quieter than the background noise threshold. It's only by correlating with the PRNG stream [1] that the data signal can be detected at all [2]. [1] The PRNG stream is 1023 bits at 1.023Mbps, so repeats every 1ms, and only autocorrelates with the correct stream when they are aligned. When the streams are not aligned, the data looks like random noise, and each transmitter has a different LFSR configuration to provide a different sequence such that each stream has a low level of correlation with another. [2] The PRNG stream bits at 1.023Mbps are exclusive-or'd with the data stream at 50bps, so when the decoder is using the correct PRNG and sequence offset, exclusive-or'ing with that produces detectable long pulses at the expected 50bps. |
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| ▲ | throw0101a 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Flexing the ability to jam GPS is pointless, since it's obvious that any state actor who has military satellites in orbit has considered this option or have the capability already. Forget "state actors", truck drivers have taken out entire airports with GPS jammers: * https://www.cnet.com/culture/truck-driver-has-gps-jammer-acc... People like the Resilient Navigation and Timing Foundation have been trying for years to get some kind of GNSS backup accepted: * https://rntfnd.org China has certainly put their money into resiliency (both navigation and timing): * https://www.gpsworld.com/china-completes-national-eloran-net... * https://rntfnd.org//2026/03/19/china-has-built-a-triad-of-sa... * https://rntfnd.org/2023/11/28/china-eloran-used-for-critical... Some folks are certainly cluing in: South Korea has (e)Loran and the UK and France are joining up with them: * https://rntfnd.org/2025/04/30/the-uks-system-of-systems-appr... * https://rntfnd.org/2025/11/12/s-korea-leads-meeting-with-u-k... | | |
| ▲ | mrngld an hour ago | parent [-] | | The US still has a fairly robust network of VOR's / VOR with DME / VORTAC stations. Good for navigation, but there's no timing component, beyond what's inherent in how they operate. Admittedly, that'll never be of use outside aviation as its line-of-sight only. But if the sun threw a Carrington event (or worse) at us, I think a lot of western aviation could carry on. | | |
| ▲ | throw0101c an hour ago | parent [-] | | > The US still has a fairly robust network of VOR's / VOR with DME / VORTAC stations. Good for navigation, but there's no timing component, beyond what's inherent in how they operate. Admittedly, that'll never be of use outside aviation […] I'm aware of the FAA's MON, Minimum Operating Network. Exactly: that doesn't help boats. Or people in cars. Or farmers: * https://www.deere.com/en/technology-products/precision-ag-te... It doesn't help those that use GNSS for precise timing (TCXOes can only 'free run' for a finite amount of time before drift compounds 'too much'). |
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| ▲ | Havoc an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Unless the actor happens to be a state that puts a great deal of emphasis on flexing & appearances regardless of how pointless it is | |
| ▲ | wcarss 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Or actual jamming mistargeted for some reason, or used because it was deemed necessary. | | |
| ▲ | alex_duf 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Repeatedly, over years, only for 2 to 5 seconds at a time? Seems unlikely | | |
| ▲ | idiotsecant 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | There is a very good reason to do this. Suppose you had a device that would make the shoplifting detectors at stores go off. The first time you did it everyone would get hassled. And the second time and so forth. But if you kept doing it eventually the employees would stop caring. Then you just walk out the door with your stuff. | |
| ▲ | wcarss an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | yeah, I have to admit I was commenting on possibilities here without having gone into the article yet -- having now looked for real, I agree that the disruptions don't seem very useful for actual jamming and repeatedly like this for years across satellites and bands in this specific way doesn't make sense for some mistaken targeting either. |
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| ▲ | Scroll_Swe 43 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | >Flexing the ability to jam GPS is pointless No, Russia does these "tests" all the time to see and gauge the reactions. Ex flying just a bit into EU airspace. https://euromaidanpress.com/2026/06/05/nato-fighters-interce... |
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| ▲ | sam_lowry_ 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The video did not settle on the jamming of von der Leyen plane on approach to Plovdiv, but AFAIR it was a (likely unintentional) lie. Never acknowledged by von der Leyen nor by her press secretary because it exposed the lack of basic world knowledge around von der Leyen and her office. | | |
| ▲ | sam_lowry_ an hour ago | parent [-] | | Why downvotes? Here's the press conference where it was announced: https://audiovisual.ec.europa.eu/en/media/video/I-276341 FlightRadar24 disproved the story shortly after: https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1962565122326700178 TLDR: Neither von den Leyen nor her office knew about ADB-S nor about the multiple services that collect ADB-S broadcasts and republish, and there was none around who could stop them from announcing an embarrassing lie. | | |
| ▲ | embedding-shape 4 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > Why downvotes? Probably because some missing mention of some specific thing you care deeply about doesn't imply "lack of basic world knowledge" for an entire political office, really strange thing to say and most likely why people are downvoting. It's neither kind, curious and definitively a snark/swipe that doesn't really add anything to the point you were trying to make. |
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| ▲ | uijl 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Interesting to see that they are able to identify the specific satellite. I wonder if we can do something now that we know the source. Working on construction projects on the Romanian coastline (just South of Ukraine) and on the Polish continental waters (just West of Kaliningrad) we experienced jamming on a daily basis. |
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| ▲ | Scroll_Swe 38 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Russia is constantly GPS jamming EU. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyx3ly54veo So funny seeing non-EU people and/or people friendly to Russia comment (not you) Carry on! | |
| ▲ | colechristensen 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >I wonder if we can do something now that we know the source. Russia signed the 1967 Outer Space Treaty (OST) in 1967, this may be a treaty violation of this or other treaties, something like that or retaliation regarding it may be possible. You can hack the satellite, or use other electronic warfare options to jam or interfere with it's operations. You can shoot it down with a missile. The X-37B is in space right now and interfering with space assets is a pretty obvious possibility for why it exists at all, but it's secret so nobody says these things. | | |
| ▲ | JoachimS 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | So Russia may be in violation of a treaty, treaties. I'm shocked. | |
| ▲ | nutjob2 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > You can shoot it down with a missile. Obviously a bad idea, but frying it with some sort of high powered electromagnetic pulse would seem the smartest option with plausible deniability. I wonder if the US already has such weapons in orbit. | | |
| ▲ | raverbashing an hour ago | parent [-] | | Kessler event oops, you know. I guess I know someone with several disposable satellites, I wonder if they could be bothered (but I guess not) |
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| ▲ | whizzter 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If you start shooting down stuff in orbit, it'll invite retaliation, but even without retaliation there's a huge risk of a Kessler syndrome (especially with all the stuff that SpaceX has put into orbit in recent years). | | |
| ▲ | db48x 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | No, Kessler syndrome is pretty unlikely in this case. All of the guilty satellites are in Molniya orbits. Debris from destroying them would not greatly effect geosynchronous orbit or the low earth orbits used by Starlink. | |
| ▲ | LiamPowell 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > especially with all the stuff that SpaceX has put into orbit in recent years I've heard this repeated a lot but I've never seen anyone do the maths. StarLink satellites are all in very low orbits, so intuitively it seems like most debris from a collision would just end up deorbiting. | |
| ▲ | Aerroon 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I've thought about this before - do you actually need to "shoot it down" (make it explode)? What if you just nudge it a little and either make it spin or change its orbit? If your missile can reach the satellite then these seem like things that should be possible, no? | | |
| ▲ | Cthulhu_ 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Depends, if you nudge it only a little, its own onboard stabilizers / thrusters should be able to correct it. It'd have to be more than its own systems can correct for. | | |
| ▲ | speed_spread 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Nudge it long enough to deplete it's fuel reserves? Or just wrap the emitting antenna in tin foil... |
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| ▲ | Schlagbohrer 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That jamming near Kaliningrad must surely be impacting the Russian residents as well, right? Unless it is very carefully aimed which seems unlikely since it is also trying to cover a very large volume. | | |
| ▲ | Havoc an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | >must surely be impacting the Russian residents as well, right? They don't give a fuck. Was watching a youtube video by a russian the other day talking about war & sanction impact and things like ride sharing apps literally say on screen the location is going to be wrong and to select pickup spot manually. It's just assumed to be fucked as a given even at an app development level | |
| ▲ | sorenjan an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yes, it's very wide spread and not carefully aimed at all. It's also not done by satellite but a ground based station. https://gpsjam.org/ | |
| ▲ | rcxdude an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Jamming in general will affect everything using those frequencies (and potentially more besides) in a given area, so if you're using it you're weighing up the effects it'll have on your stuff as well. (early in the current Ukrainian invasion, reportedly Russian electronic warfare units were screwing up their own side more than the Ukrainians) | |
| ▲ | ponector 35 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | No one gives a fuck what russian residents are thinking about it. And if they start to talk about issues - police will quickly force everyone to shut up. | |
| ▲ | lazide an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | 1) with the exception of probably a few pensioners (who also depend on gov’t funding), everyone in the area is dependent on the military. It’s a giant military base in the middle of nowhere. 2) anyone not military (and hence in on it), is a pensioner or the like and won’t give a shit about GPS. This is not a thriving urban metropolis or tourist location. | | |
| ▲ | akho 43 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Why lie? It _is_ a tourist location, with > 2mln tourists annually (for their 1 mln permanent population). It also has quite a diverse economy, with Avtotor being a major car assembler (though not quite what it was pre-war), a fishing industry, amber mining, a TV manufacturer, &c. With a significant military presence, of course, but "giant military base in the middle of nowhere" is just ridiculous. | | | |
| ▲ | u8080 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It is not. I.e. there is one of the largest passenger vehicle assembly line Autotor. | |
| ▲ | Thlom an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | The city has half a million residents and the oblast has a million residents. There's restaurants, museums, grocery stores, car dealerships, parks, zoo's, malls, stadiums, factories, train stations, an airport, ports etc etc. It's a real place. | | |
| ▲ | lazide an hour ago | parent [-] | | I never said it wasn’t. Killeen, Texas is also a real place. How many people do you think don’t have at least a 2 degree connection to the US military? Do you think anyone there is going to think twice about going along with what the military is doing? Or could if they wanted too? And Killeen is far, far less isolated geographically. | | |
| ▲ | u8080 39 minutes ago | parent [-] | | It is like saying Detroit is military base because there are some military related buildings. | | |
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| ▲ | q3k 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Kaliningrad is one big military base. | | |
| ▲ | TFNA an hour ago | parent [-] | | Doesn't sound like you have actually been there. Military is a major employer, but in a territory inhabited since 1944 there are generations of people born there who didn't see a reason to live, the same foreign gastarbeiter as in any Russian city, etc. I.e plenty of ordinary people who could be inconvenienced. | | |
| ▲ | lukan 4 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I don't think you meant it like that, but Kaliningrad, or Königsberg is inhabited since a bit longer. For example Immanuel Kant lived and taught there. |
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| ▲ | Scroll_Swe 36 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | >That jamming near Kaliningrad must surely be impacting the Russian residents as well, right? Russia does not care, nor does it care about its population. Where are you from? I ask because you have western privilege, like me, and assume our governments care about its people. Why I lucked out being born in Sweden, the more I learn about the world, the more I am convinced I lucked out ahahaha. |
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| ▲ | dwa3592 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Hmm - the timing is uncanny that only 2 days ago I started building a dead reckoning system. |
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| ▲ | Joel_Mckay an hour ago | parent [-] | | Your local cellphone towers already provide a more accurate position beacon signal for GPS modules in most parts of the world. Additional RF beam-forming in G5+ systems also make it impractical for lamers to jam long-distances due to limited coherent signal propagation. Indeed, amateur Hams have caught Russian ships jamming/spoofing local port traffic several years before the various official overseas conflicts started. Not sure if it is government sponsored, or just various smuggling schemes like some ships spamming China harbors. =3 | | |
| ▲ | dwa3592 13 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Agreed about cellphone towers providing accurate position, but not with enough precision and highly dependent on the number of towers in the vicinity. What i started building is for a highly unlikely scenario which is ; no internet + no GPS + no cell tower. |
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| ▲ | NKosmatos 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| TLDR (conclusion from the paper):
"By a combination of these techniques the satellite Cosmos 2546 (NORAD ID 45608) was identified with high confidence as
one source of the interference. Further analysis pointed to the Russian Edinaya Kosmicheskaya Sistema, an early warning
constellation to which Cosmos 2546 belongs, as collectively responsible for the wide-area transient interference causing GNSS
degradation across Europe since 2019." |
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| ▲ | jeroenhd 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Additionally: > Note that Cosmos 2546 was launched in May 2020 and so cannot be responsible for the interference events that occurred in 2019. Moreover, Cosmos 2546 was not over Europe during some interference events after May 2020. But during all events on the 75 days shown in Table 1 there was at least one EKS satellite above a 35∘ elevation angle with respect to every reference station that observed the interference. Thus, it is highly probable that the EKS constellation is collectively responsible for the wide-area transient GNSS interference events noted since 2019. |
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| ▲ | moffkalast 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There's a live map too: https://gpsjam.org |
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| ▲ | Coala15 36 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Being engaged to warfare with Russia and being jammed in response. So weird. |
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| ▲ | mattlondon 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| tl;dr - it was Russian satellites |
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| ▲ | imp0cat 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | How unsuprising. | |
| ▲ | Cthulhu_ 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | This tl;dr is actually in the tl;dr on the linked page. We're doing tl;drs for tl;drs now? | | |
| ▲ | Schlagbohrer 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | In the future abstracts will be called Tilldars and no one will remember it came originally from trying to pronounce "tldr" |
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| ▲ | DivingForGold an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| You can likely bet that Space X with their thousands of sats deployed in space already has among them a few hundred stealth US military sats strategically placed and ready for the command to deal with the few Russky sats causing these problems ... think our Space Force. |