| ▲ | thewebguyd 4 hours ago |
| > The thing about Apple is that as the "IT" guy for my family, its ecosystem is the one which needs the least attention from me. This is true in business/enterprise IT also. Any big company that's done a switch, or at least offered an employee choice, almost immediately saw a huge drop in help desk workload from mac users. Legacy win32 apps aside, it's baffling to me that Windows is still the dominant share of computers issued to employees at nearly every non-tech company. |
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| ▲ | Drunk_Engineer 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Enterprise Mac still has occasional problems -- mainly due to Microsoft crapware IT departments insist on installing. |
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| ▲ | trimethylpurine an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Mac users are consistently the highest needs users in my environment. Ymmv. Samba is still broken. Microsoft apps don't work. You can use them for Adobe. But even then, performance per dollar is poor. Adobe flies on much cheaper Windows hardware in the side by side testing we've done. I'm the Director of IT for a 160M revenue company. We allow Macs, and we support them. But I don't share your take on the benefits. I can't think of a single benefit frankly. It's a loss for the business. Oh well, it's not my money. |
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| ▲ | thewebguyd 35 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | This reads like the last time you've evaluated is 2018. The entire office suite works great on Apple silicon with the exception of, obviously Win32 VBA macros and some PowerQuery features in Excel. As for Adobe, I'm assuming you're issuing desktops then? Because for an equivalently performant laptop with heavy Adobe workloads you are going to spend the same as a MBP on the higher end Thinkpads, or dell precisions. There's no cost savings there, really (again, unless you have everyone on desktops). If you're still domain joining macs, trying to use SCCM & GPOs, and treating them like any other windows endpoint, of course you are running into problems. Kind of a square peg/round hole situation. Not doubting your experience, but to have relatively problem free mac endpoints you have to do things differently. Maybe not worth it for every company, especially any that are super deep into Microsoft. But I can say, they've worked great for mine and we are phasing out Windows entirely, and IBM, Cisco, and SAP all had similar lower total cost of ownership & less help desk workload after introducing macs. Then again, we no longer use smb/samba, we eliminated on-prem file shares a long time ago. | |
| ▲ | grosswait 43 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Was that side by side comparison with all the security cruft running, because this is totally contrary to my experience with both sets of hardware managed by IT. |
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| ▲ | infecto 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Part of that reason is Microsoft office is a third class citizen on macOS. Edit: Not sure why this would get downvoted. Weird. It absolutely lags behind windows version of the products by years. Excel did not get ribbon key shortcuts until 6 months ago. It’s a pretty terrible experience for most power users. |
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| ▲ | bdamm 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | How? My experience with Excel, Word, Powerpoint, event Teams, is that they generally work fine. This is unlike the situation from e.g. 20 years ago, when you could barely get work done due to all the crashes, but that is a very distant memory now. There was a brief time during 2019 when Teams on Mac was kind of awful, but that's long ago in the past as well. My biggest complaint these days is that Teams uses far too much CPU when I'm sharing my screen. But other than that, everything seems to be ok. | | |
| ▲ | mountain_peak 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | People might not remember, but Word, Excel, and PowerPoint were all released for the Macintosh before Windows. Back then, the Macintosh versions were 1st-class citizens and (and you mention), Windows versions were a buggy mess. Having used versions on both for years, I'd say there was a "dark" time around 2011 when the macOS versions were lagging badly feature-wise, but they're pretty much on-par today. My biggest complaint is that you can't turn off the ridiculous animations in macOS versions (e.g. moving between cells in Excel). That makes the entire suite "feel" slower when in reality, the macOS version could easily be just as responsive as the Windows suite. | | |
| ▲ | storus an hour ago | parent [-] | | They still aren't on-par today, in MacOS Excel you can't do some charts you can do on Windows. |
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| ▲ | havaloc an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What's sad is that in my experience supporting 80 users, Word et al work with fewer issues on Mac. The stack integration on Windows is fine, until it isn't. | |
| ▲ | infecto 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Lack of parity. It’s getting better but my classic example is ribbon shortcuts for Excel. They did not exist until something like 6 months ago. |
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| ▲ | bigstrat2003 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It's much harder to manage Macs than Windows machines, especially if you are a Windows shop already (which most are). Microsoft is working on eroding the quality of their software, but for now the management tools they offer for Windows clients are simply unparalleled in the Mac world. |
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| ▲ | thewebguyd 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Sure, if you're still on-prem AD or hybrid. For orgs that have already moved to full Intune/EntraID, managing windows via Intune is still years behind a good macOS MDM. InTune still feels half baked. | |
| ▲ | vondur an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Not really the case any longer. JAMF is pretty easy to use and it's way better to work with compared to Intune, which to me feels half baked compared to something like on Prem AD/GP/SCCM. |
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| ▲ | elorant 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| There’s nothing baffling to it. Windows PCs are upgradable. Apple won’t even give you a PCie slot on its $10k mac studio ultra to install a better network card or whatever. |
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| ▲ | cortesoft 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I haven't worked with TOO many different companies, but I have worked at a few of various sizes (from small startup to huge Fortune 100), and none of them ever provided upgrades for machines. It was always full replacements. Sometimes you would get a used machine, but they were from someone else who left, not an upgraded machine. Are other IT shops really doing a lot of piece by piece upgrades for employee machines? | | |
| ▲ | thewebguyd 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Are other IT shops really doing a lot of piece by piece upgrades for employee machines? I doubt it. I'm certainly not, and none of my peers at other companies locally are either. Even less so now that plenty of business class laptops are coming with soldered ram anyway. The MO is to just replace the machine once its out of warranty. | |
| ▲ | fragmede 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's for specialist users. Eg video editors or CAD systems. They need a 10-Gig connectivity to the SAN and want a Mac and not a Dell. |
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| ▲ | Kirby64 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What company upgrades their windows PCs? They give them exactly as shipped. IT department is not wasting time swapping out RAM or SSDs. And they certainly are not upgrading them over time. You just replace the entire PC if you go to 'swap' it. | | |
| ▲ | kyawzazaw 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | my school IT department does this
but it's a small university | | |
| ▲ | 0x1d7 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | IME edu operates much differently than [US] corporations which use a 3 - 5 year deprecation schedule. Edu is more 'run it until it doesn't'. |
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| ▲ | kasey_junk 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I have never, in 30 years, working across big companies and small, had a computer hardware upgrade. It’s _always_ just a new box. | | |
| ▲ | Modified3019 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I work I Ag retail (agronomic services, chemical sales) and while we have an IT department, a decade ago I’d occasionally act as “local” tech support and double a coworker’s RAM when their combination of browser/office/database front ends stopped gracefully fitting in 4GB (and later 8GB). I would also migrate them from HDD’s to SSD’s, and set them up with backups. But even I haven’t done that in several years now, once IT moved to providing 16GB memory and SSD’s as a baseline, there’s really nothing left in a box to upgrade. I’m quite happy enough to not have to care. | |
| ▲ | havaloc an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Agreed, the only time I did upgrades on boxes is swapping out spinning disks for SSD, that saved me a whole upgrade cycle it was such an improvement. | |
| ▲ | j2j8 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | They are often leased and have to be returned in the same condition at the end of the term. |
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| ▲ | robertlagrant 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Most people have laptops now, in my experience of large corporations. | | | |
| ▲ | GeekyBear 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I actually have seen a business upgrade PCs that were fairly recently purchased once, back during the transition from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95. | |
| ▲ | reaperducer 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | There’s nothing baffling to it. Windows PCs are upgradable. We're talking about enterprises here, not home tinkerers. Enterprises buy whole computers and replace them every x years. They don't waste expensive IT employee time running around upgrading machines all the time. The last time I worked for a company that did any repair of its computers was around 2005, when all ~500 Dells in the office had to have their defective motherboards replaced. | | |
| ▲ | ioblomov 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | There’s an accounting factor too. Businesses depreciate equipment as SOP. The laptops have already been written off by the time they need upgrading. |
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