Remix.run Logo
Legend2440 2 hours ago

Claims in the lawsuit seem sketchy, and I don't think they will win.

It is probably not true that ChatGPT has resulted in an increase in murders and suicides, and certainly it would be very difficult to prove liability on OpenAI for this. It reminds me of the campaign in the 90s against video game manufacturers for "corrupting the youth".

But I also don't think they expect to win. They just want to show that they're doing something to fight tech companies and AI.

beering 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

At the end of the article, the main guy says he wants tech companies to report your conversations to the authorities if bad content is detected. That’s their goal, apparently

oceanplexian 23 minutes ago | parent [-]

Don’t be fooled, they already 100% do that if you use any of these products.

beering 17 minutes ago | parent [-]

Then, what are they even fighting about?

z3c0 7 minutes ago | parent [-]

[delayed]

YesBox an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> It reminds me of the campaign in the 90s against video game manufacturers for "corrupting the youth".

The government did intervene though. They threatened to regulate the industry if the industry didn't regulate itself. So some/all the big industry players got together and created their own independent age rating agency that they all agreed to use.

Whoever was suing won in the outcomes department.

megolodan 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Depends if they have a judge in mind to tip the scales

dylan604 an hour ago | parent [-]

There's definitely one judge in FL that seems to like the current administration

nickv 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

This one is tricky, because FL/DeSantis is running against Trump on this position. Trump is the biggest booster of data center build-outs and AI supremacy. A Trump-friendly judge might hurt the odds of this lawsuit succeeding.

elictronic 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is closer to the cases where girlfriends or spouses spent weeks trying to get their person to kill themself. Having a clearly defined log of repeatedly telling someone how and to kill themself is to my non lawyer eyes just the teeniest bit worse.

I’m no lawyer though so maybe potato po-kill your spouse with a claw hammer-tato. They do sound very similar. Please tell me more.

Legend2440 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Do you have a link to a transcript where that happened?

In all the cases I've seen, the user seemed highly motivated to kill themselves and spent a lot of time trying to push past guardrails, ignoring repeated messages to seek help.

nailer 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> certainly it would be very difficult to prove liability on OpenAI for this

My understanding is that OpenAI products specifically provided help in planning attacks / self harm.

Legend2440 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Full transcripts are unfortunately not available for any of those cases, but from what I've found it provided general information about e.g. how to load and operate a firearm or how past mass shootings have been received in the media.

The way I see it, providing general information is not a crime. They're basically saying: "Oh no! My repository of all human knowledge contains all human knowledge! It must be defective!"

DrewADesign an hour ago | parent | next [-]

So someone could go and teach a class on how to build pipe bombs, refine ricin, shake-and-bake meth, 3D print guns, and all sorts of other things like that, and when the ATF looked into it, they’d just be like “well technically this is all out there on the Internet, in library books, etc. Guess it’s ok!”

The law doesn’t work like that.

Legend2440 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

The Anarchist Cookbook is fully legal to possess and distribute in the United States: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anarchist_Cookbook

So yes. It is generally legal to provide information about making drugs, bombs, or guns.

skinfaxi an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The law bans things, things aren't illegal by default. What laws does a class about 3d printing guns violate?

andoando an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Im pretty sure thats all legal

plagiarist an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There should be some SCOTUS case where this limitation on the First Amendment is defined if the law doesn't work like that.

I mean, back when Constitutional law meant anything to the government, of course. Nowadays who knows.

mrandish 29 minutes ago | parent [-]

> limitation on the First Amendment

This suit has nothing to do with free speech and the F1A provides no relevant protection here. This prosecution is under consumer protection law. Broadly, the cause of action is "you negligently sold a defective product which you knew (or should have known) actually causes harm or is likely to cause harm." Proving negligence (willful or otherwise) depends significantly on things like the sales and usage context as well as claimed features of the product along with disclaimers, disclosures, existing practice, prior knowledge of actual harm, etc.

That the product or service in question included supplying information that was publicly available elsewhere wouldn't be an effective defense against claims of willful negligence or reckless endangerment. For example, rat poison is sold in in certain retailers in packaging with copious warnings and successful prosecutions under product liability or consumer protection law are rare. But if another company sold rat poison in bright pink boxes with a cute cartoon mascot and no warnings in toy stores - and then kept selling it after they knew three children had bought it and died - the fact the same chemical compound is also commonly sold in hardware stores wouldn't be relevant.

To win a judgement, the AG will need to prove that ChatGPT was clearly a dangerous product and OAI acted negligently in supplying it to customers it knew (or should have known) were vulnerable. This will be quite a stretch under existing law. I suspect the AG has no intention of taking this case to trial and, shortly after the November elections, will settle for a lump sum fine paid to the state treasury and a vaguely worded consent decree which mirrors internal policies and product changes OAI has already adopted to minimize liability.

CamperBob2 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes. Yes, it does work like that. Exactly like that.

elictronic 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When the repository has large arrows pointing to kill your {var} with customized pamphlets outlining the steps and highlighting mistakes you specifically might make based on your post history I’m betting a judge or jury might consider you an accomplice at that point.

We’re already seeing section 230 protections being defeated in court for targeted feeds, now add itemized instructions on committing felony’s at scale personalized. Hahahahaha. Hope they IPO quickly.

calmworm 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If a human was found to be specifically putting these how-tos together for someone they might be liable.

Edit: why vote this down? It’s part of a discussion. This isn’t Reddit.

ericfr11 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Not different than YouTube or Reddit

calmworm an hour ago | parent [-]

Agreed… and those people might also be liable.

beeblebok an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are already published examples where there was very specific info and guidance provided.

notahacker an hour ago | parent [-]

Beyond the info and guidance, there's also the classic sycophantic encouragement. Humans are allowed to publish the Anarchist's Cookbook, but they tend to get into trouble when it becomes "based on your manifesto, I would suggest the following targets". Of course, AI isn't human, and treating a software program like a human probably isn't good law, but OpenAI are very keen to suggest it's legally equivalent to a human when it suits them...

jddj 37 minutes ago | parent [-]

> OpenAI are very keen to suggest it's legally equivalent to a human when it suits them

When is/was that?

(Not rhetorical)

SV_BubbleTime 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Full transcripts are unfortunately not available for any of those cases,

And they never would be without the lawsuits, so, I don’t feel bad for OpenAI. All of big tech needs a kick in the ass on transparency.

beering an hour ago | parent [-]

I don’t think the families are eager for the HN peanut gallery to pick apart what their loved ones said.

nxnsnsjsijssb 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[dead]

Crontab 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

My first thought was that they were suing as a favor to Trump/Musk.

JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> first thought was that they were suing as a favor to Trump/Musk

Did you follow up on that by looking for any money links between Musk and this AG?