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zuzululu 5 hours ago

My suggestion is to just ban specific regions or countries and you can cut 80% of this fraud.

I'm not going to name those countries outright but you should never ever be launching globally until you have these safeguards in place.

Once you are known to be vulnerable to a certain scheme, it quickly becomes known in that region/country.

Again and again I'm reminded why high trust societies remain high trust and why low trust societies rarely transform into high trust society.

shash7 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I've got 13 chargebacks over the last 4 years for my biz. Out of these, 10 came from US based cards. The other 3 came from Australia(my country).

Be careful when taking verbatim advice from internet strangers.

vbezhenar 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I live in Kazakhstan (I assume that's one country nobody heard of and would disable in their dashboard) and my bank doesn't even have any UI for chargebacks, nor I ever heard about anyone doing chargebacks. They even explicitly warn me sometimes that I assume all responsibility for that payment. I guess I can go through some process, it's VISA after all, but it's definitely not something I can do easily.

thrownthatway 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Everyone’s heard of Kazakhstan, if not for the architecture, at least because of Borat.

compsciphd 2 hours ago | parent [-]

you were thrown that way in Kazakhstan? :)

plantain 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

+1 almost all from the US.

The strongest signal is whether they use an eBank/app that has a one-click button to report transactions as fraudulent. The Apple card(?) seems especially prevalent.

m463 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I had a friend with the apple card, and there were fraudulent charges on her card before she even used it.

I think that caused her to over-scrutinize things.

But (years) later I saw her using apple pay. She had charges she didn't recognize and would immediately flag them. Thing is, I couldn't help but think they might have been real charges with weirdly named companies on the transaction.

lelanthran an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> She had charges she didn't recognize and would immediately flag them. Thing is, I couldn't help but think they might have been real charges with weirdly named companies on the transaction.

That's completely the companies fault. If you give a transaction a reference that the customer will not recognise, that's on you!

cortesoft 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I feel like companies should do a better job of naming their payment entity something that a customer can know when they see it.

cherioo 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It’s 2026, why can’t credit card and merchant figure out a way to transmit order summary URL as part of credit card transactions so I don’t need to match up transactions by amount??

an hour ago | parent | next [-]
[deleted]
Schiendelman 42 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

They absolutely can. They just don't bother.

t-3 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's not really helpful if I recognize the name when the gas station doesn't put the charges on my card until Friday when I bought stuff there on Tuesday. Then I'm just confused and have to analyze my whole purchase history.

fweimer an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

U.S. chargeback rules are different. In other countries, you cannot repudiate credit card transactions that you authorized (and this applies to Mastercard/Visa, too). You need to do something else if you end up in a dispute with the merchant.

hdra 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

not to mention, thats pretty bad advice for these chargeback frauds. not gonna deny some regions have higher risk of frauds, but these are mostly high-volume automated schemes.

in the case of these "friendly fraud" schemes, they are much more likely to come from more developed regions with strong consumer protection laws like the NA.

if anything in many of those "high risk" regions, chargeback are much less common because fewer consumer protection law e.g. banks would automatically reject chargebacks for transactions with 3DS OTP.

Cider9986 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Yeah, they will likely be spoofing their location anyway with residential IPs to let their payments go through easier and maintain identity separation.

zuzululu 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

13 over 4 years is tiny sample compared to what I've seen on international scale.

Great advice which is why data is what I'm relying on vs anecdotes.

verelo 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah, all my chargebacks are Americans. Realtors are the worst.

paulddraper 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How big is your business and where does it sell?

One chargeback a quarter is a lot, depending.

esseph 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Just because the card is US-based doesn't mean the user is.

joxdosba a few seconds ago | parent | next [-]

If the cardholder is doing chargebacks on an US-based card, they cardholder is probably US-based.

Not very easy to do with prepaid cards AFAIU.

zuzululu 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

or American.

gingerlime 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This case was Canada.

The US and I imagine Canada are known for the ease of chargebacks.

My experience in Europe is that it's a very tough process to even initiate (as a consumer)

Cider9986 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Accept crypto for those countries, it doesn't have chargebacks and helps those vulnerable to the financial system.

epestr 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I went down a bit of a search looking for counter evidence that crypto is likely less available to them, and it turns out both perspectives are true depending on the scale you look at. At the micro-level, survey data from emerging markets[0] confirms that crypto offers immunity against institutional failure and inflationary currency.

But this QJE article[1] argues there's a ceiling to how far things scale. Concluding that the cost to keep a decentralized network secure scales with its total economic value. So while there is immediate value to it's user, it might not scale well, and can't replace a country's financial system anyway because securing it at a sovereign scale would just be more expensive.

[0]: https://www.mdpi.com/1911-8074/17/10/467 [1]: https://academic.oup.com/qje/article/140/1/1/7824430

zuzululu 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I dont follow. If regular finance to a country is that much distanced from global financial oversight and treaties where crypto (with awful spreads) becomes the norm that doesnt necessarily mean they are victims of international financial order but that regular financially modeling simply cannot manage their unique risk characteristics

Cider9986 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Damn, I made a great reply and it never sent–that sucks.

I was more nuanced and specific, but I don't want to do it all again.

1. The fees are not awful idk what you mean, I pay between 0.1% and 1% fees on Monero transactions.

2. If the modelling can't manage their risk characteristics, they are by definition a victim of the financial system. I was more talking about people who have been debanked, though.

I have a Russian friend who can't pay for things online in fiat because of sanctions and the risk to his life from being on the free internet. So, he uses Monero and Tor and takes his OPSEC seriously. He is a victim of trad-fi, and Monero allows him to take his freedom back.

tsimionescu 2 hours ago | parent [-]

This is actually one of the major reasons people should be very weary of accepting crypto, especially Monero. Instead of being able to basically outsource sanctions compliance to a bank, you take on the burden of trying to figure out if your customers are sanctioned yourself - with potentially dire consequences to your business if you get it wrong.

denkmoon 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Have you ever actually used crypto to buy something? The transaction fees are exorbitant and prohibitive, and it's slow as balls.

Cider9986 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, all the time. I usually pay a 1 cent fee and the transaction goes through in seconds. Not sure what you're talking about.

I can send you some if you want to try it out, just drop an address(for a wallet I recommend cakewallet, but any popular open source wallet works).

I'm talking about Monero specifically, but your reply makes no sense because there are cryptos that have 0 transaction fee and instant confirmaiton. But they are less secure and private so I don't use them, I only use Monero.

denkmoon an hour ago | parent [-]

Yeah, monero has low transaction fees. And is a pain in the ass to get, even more so in significant quantity or at a good exchange rate. You pay a significant premium for the privacy. So just different types of fees. Monero is also far from instant in my experience.

I too have plenty of purchasing experience with crypto and I wouldn’t advocate for it for any legal transaction.

DaSHacka 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That depends on the currency you use. I've only ever used Monero and the transfer fees are fractions of a cent.

shimman 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Man people are still using the "it's a currency" grift when discussing crypto, did the El Salvador failure really teach you nothing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_in_El_Salvador

OneDeuxTriSeiGo 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's less because it was Bitcoin and more because the entire effort was a slapdash affair pushed by Bukele in an effort for him and his buddies to profit off the cryptocurrency boom rather than being an inherent knock on cryptocurrency itself.

Also of all the cryptocurrencies Bitcoin is a pretty poor choice since it could be pretty well argued that it has lost the original purpose and devolved into a raw "line go up" financial instrument.

sieabahlpark 2 hours ago | parent [-]

[dead]

Cider9986 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's the whole thing with Monero. It's actually used as a currency, not as a get rich quick scam. I believe 99% of crypto is a scam, but Monero is a real improvement for payments. The Monero community actually wants it to be adopted to spend it, it's not a price go up community.

Buy food with Monero on an ebay type platform called xmrbazaar.

(https://xmrbazaar.com/search-category/food/)

Donate to non-profits in Monero

(https://donatemonero.org)

GrapheneOS says it's the only crypto that they regularly get recurring small donations in.

koolba 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Crypto does have the distinct cash like advantage of not having chargebacks. I don’t know of any other digital payment system with that property.

sieabahlpark 4 hours ago | parent [-]

[dead]

jhancock 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I was told by someone in the industry that New Zealand leads the pack for travelling outside NZ and coming home to refute charges.

hosteur 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why do you not want to name them?

bellowsgulch 3 hours ago | parent [-]

It makes the conversation turn into an electromagnet for racists.

You can’t ignore the stereotypes, but you can let people figure it out themselves. You don’t have to say it when it’s already obvious.

rtgfhyuj 2 hours ago | parent [-]

[dead]

edflsafoiewq 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I'm not going to name those countries outright

Why?

MBCook 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I would assume it’s not that relevant to the advice. And people will always argue about the countries if you list them.

X isn’t bad. You should include Y. You only added/omitted Z because of $stereotype/$racistView/$otherAllegation.

Probably just not worth the hassle.

izacus an hour ago | parent [-]

I would assume they're talking about of their arse and being racist.

zonkerdonker 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

zuzululu 4 hours ago | parent [-]

why is racism always the go to response for any suggestion that different countries have different valuesand that translates into observable and verifiable behavioral patterns that should be studied and recognized ?

how can it be that all countries and cultures are alike with no room for diversity in ethics and overton window ?

HaZeust 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>"Again and again I'm reminded why high trust societies remain high trust and why low trust societies rarely transform into high trust society."

Outside of South Korea, from enormous help from Pax Americana, has it ever happened?

rtgfhyuj 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

zuzululu 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I didn't name a single country and you reach for racism .... because I said fraud is more prevalent in some regions than others

rtgfhyuj 2 hours ago | parent [-]

[dead]

laserdancepony 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

OneDeuxTriSeiGo 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

zuzululu 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I think you've done a good job of answering why.

k33n 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Probably why it’s flagged.