Ios does the same, only way around it is if you have an ?enterprise? licence (250+ devices)

Mullvad and others reported on that one ages ago

Terminology like "private" and "trust" differ in meaning from computer land to human convention.

It's a concern to me, because humans often extend their trust to computer trust based upon misunderstanding of the identically spelled words and lack of recognition of differing context.

MacOS has had instances where their own apps could bypass always-on VPN. I'm not sure if there have been exploits or gaps where traffic could go to arbitrary destinations directly.

How hard would it be to fix the system_server (and any other) bypass?

You make a lot of claim yet gives no source or material to back up your claim.

Beside, what would be a great distribution beyond grapheneos. iOS isn't, stock Android is much worst, calyxos ? Lineageos ? They are much worst on the security.

Is the CalyxOS Vs GrapheneOS shitflinging about to start up again?

Seems like volunteers and donations? Is there something else I can read to be more informed on this?

> a governamental VPN and honeypot, a.k.a. Tor.

Why is tor a honeypot?

Not damaging their relationship with Google as a vendor most likely. For better or worse, GrapheneOS is depend on Android which is controlled by Google.

Depends on how you see the role of a VPN.

VPNs, at least originally, were designed to provide access to private/business networks across another network. Office to office, home to office, that sort of thing. VPNs were only later turned into some kind of (supposed) security tool.

If your take on VPN code is "as long as your phone can reach the office printer over 5G" then this is a tiny bug. QUIC connections aren't being shut down properly, like they weren't before the introduction of the feature.

If your take on VPN code is "this wireguard tunnel must keep my identity safe no matter what" or "my security relies on this wireguard tunnel being an exact copy of all traffic exchanged over the internet" then this is a massive problem.

I don't think Android VPNs, or any VPN to be honest, were ever designed as a privacy or security measure. Especially not against apps with code execution on the device. The device itself will do all kinds of network interactions, some happening from within the modem chip itself.

Closing the bug was a mistake on Google's part, but I can see why they don't consider this a security bug in their bug bounty programme.

That assumes there is pride they have to bother to keep.

It's a feature for them not a bug. Google is an ad company and an offense contractor they want VPN users leaking packets for both reasons.

They're paid not to.

How can someone consider unwanted disclosure of personal information a security issue, and work at Google?

At some point digital security turns into physical security, and there are national security interests that have fine-tuned their detection logic on these kinds of "buggy" behavior.

If you patch it, you'd need to find another way to de-anonymize those users.

Corporations have no pride. They are soulless, psychopathic accountability sinks.

What planet are you from?

This won't help you right now, but GrapheneOS did recently announce a partnership with Motorola, so presumably in a year or so support will start showing up for some Motorola devices.

Side note: I did get the 10a on launch from Google Fi for ~300.

Don't buy Pixel 10a, 9a is almost exactly the same thing and still sold new.

I answered this in another thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48076522

Basically, buy a Pixel 6 or later (I suggest Pixel 7 or later, since Pixel 6 will be minimal support soon) that you are sure has an unlockable bootloader. The majority you'll see don't have an unlockable bootloader.

Which mostly means either buy direct from Google, or buy one on eBay that already has GrapheneOS/CalyxOS/LineageOS on it or for which the seller expressly says it has an unlockable bootloader.

(IME, don't bother trying to ask a seller to check bootloader, if they haven't already said. Almost no one is going to go through the process to check, the answer is probably no anyway, they might misunderstand your question and answer that it's "unlocked", and they may be tired of people asking.)

You could wait it out for a bit. There is work underway to support more phone hardware. Which brand was a bit up for speculation.

I bought a Pixel 7 from BackMarket to test out GrapheneOS. I have previous positive comments and conversations in my account history.

> unless I go back several generations

Yeah, do that.

It’ll still be the snappiest phone you’ve ever used.

Refurbished phones are cheap and even going back 3, 4, 5 years you have great hardware, indistinguishable from what you would pay 1000$ new now. 200 or 300$ for a high quality refurbished pixel is really not that bad.

We all agree. But what's the solution? We know 99% of the users don't care. So, the only pressure point is phone manufacturers. I don't have any power to influence anybody significant in this space. I feel helpless.

This is the path for the graceful closing on the QUIC connection via (IMO) illegitimate/exploitative call, GOS is not disabling QUIC as a whole.

QUIC as it is is brilliant, and this is not a feature of the protocol, it's a feature of the surveillance OS (Google's Android).

Other than that I checked on the OS before the latest release, and it didn't work anyway.

> so another package manager is needed for which grapheneos people seem to favor obtainium over f-droid, which I find is another strange decision

So just download f-droid yourself? Why the fixation on having a definitive, preloaded app store?

>I much prefer a fully OSS package manager and there is real value in having people compile from the sources externally, maybe even reproducibly so, instead of trusting the github packages.

Operating an app store is almost as much work as maintaining an Android fork, and it's hard to fault the authors for not sinking massive amounts of effort into doing it, when there's already f-droid, play store (plus aurora store), obtanium, and many others.

App store is about as much as you need to decide what to do/where to go for the apps.

Out of the box it has only a launcher and the minimal OS. All the minimalist needs.

If you want more, you get to decide where to go for that.

I call it empowering users, you call it inconvenience, but maybe in that case it's not the best OS for you?

I'm really glad calyxos is starting up again. Grapheneos has a lot of cool technical implementation but there are a lot of things that Calyx seems to do in a simpler, more vanilla Android manner.