| ▲ | aleksiy123 7 hours ago |
| While I think this isn’t great. Why is the camera there in the first place?? Presumably there are people that have access to it. And if you are demoing software that connects to cameras, then someone gave the sales guy access to those cameras. I’m also assuming those probably weren’t the only cameras… |
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| ▲ | KaiserPro 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > Why is the camera there in the first place?? I imagine its for security. Ie if there are reports of robbery, you can find who did it. I know its not that popular in the states but its common elsewhere, but with better controls. (well, "better" as in controlled by shitty IoT devices) I think the thing with flock is just how poorly put together everything is. They are obviously insecure, and the entire network has massive holes in it. Yet its still being rolled out. |
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| ▲ | ses1984 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Why would a gymnastics gym get robbed? It’s just a bunch of smelly equipment that’s hard to sell and probably very little cash. | | |
| ▲ | jjmarr 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It's the Marcus Jewish Community Center of Atlanta. Jewish Community Centers are targeted more for attacks than a YMCA. | | | |
| ▲ | tedggh 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Looting is done for fun too. It must suck to have kids show up for practice in the morning and some of the essential gear is gone. It doesn’t matter if it is inexpensive to replace, you still have to cancel class and take a day or two up replace it, file a police report, etc | | |
| ▲ | antiframe 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Right, but why is a Flock camera a better approach than: insurance, on-prem camera, etc. The Flock camera doesn't prevent theft. It increases remote viewing (especially if it's used in a demo to strangers they aren't customers yet, doubly especially if those strange customers are doing it because the might want to see young gymnasts) |
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| ▲ | RandallBrown 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Robbery may not be the main reason for a camera. Having a video of any incident that happens (broken equipment leading to injury, angry parent, etc.) would be valuable. | |
| ▲ | Symbiote 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Possibly as a deterrent to a child (or adult) going through clothing/bags and stealing mobile phones while the owners are exercising. | |
| ▲ | TZubiri 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | School shootings? | |
| ▲ | KaiserPro 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | here its mostly mobile phones. |
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| ▲ | bluGill 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Any sane business that has lots of random people coming in will have cameras recording (except in bathrooms/locker rooms). There is too much opportunity for crime, and a camera is cheap. If something happens you pull up the feed from the last month and give the interesting parts to the police; most often you just delete everything after a month. More than one crime has been solved this way. That said, if there wasn't a crime the camera footage should be deleted. |
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| ▲ | l72 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The problem isn't having cameras. Its that these cameras should be closed circuit with data residing locally, not being sent to a 3rd party that has full access to the video streams, and who processes them, combines them with other parties, resells data from them, or hands them over without a warrant! | | |
| ▲ | NonHyloMorph 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This | |
| ▲ | dghlsakjg 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Ok, and bear with me, but what if that third party needs to do a sales demo and the client can only be convinced by seeing live footage of stranger’s children in a gymnastics class or at the pool in their swimsuits? I really don’t see how we can avoid having our cities hand over this data sight unseen to a company with a history of enabling stalkers and overzealous policing. I haven’t checked this, but based on the enthusiasm for this technology, I assume that crime clearance rates are near 100% in cities with these cameras. (/s) | |
| ▲ | peyton 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | themafia 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > There is too much opportunity for crime, and a camera is cheap. The camera doesn't prevent crime. It just displaces it. Even when it doesn't it will not prevent the crime from happening. It _may_ provide you an opportunity to prosecute the person who committed it. In reality the only real reason to have one is to reduce your insurance premiums. > crime has been solved A perpetrator was potentially caught and now has to be tried or negotiated into a plea. I understand we use the term "solve" as a term of art but it's a particularly poor one. It speaks to the need of police to clear their books of negative indicators and not to any first order desirable social outcome. > That said That said, if during a demo, you access another customers equipment, I will _never_ do business with you. That's just extremely unprofessional behavior. | | |
| ▲ | SauntSolaire 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > The camera doesn't prevent crime. It just displaces it. That's why I periodically leave a bunch of bicycles with cheap locks downtown. They act like a kind of criminal sacrificial anode, reducing crime in the rest of the city. | | |
| ▲ | themafia 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That's why the police don't enforce drug laws in _particular_ areas. What you describe is obviously already happening on a much larger scale. I'm not sure why people have trouble grasping something this basic. | | |
| ▲ | dghlsakjg 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Because many of us who live in cities have experience with police being completely feckless. I have experienced multiple times when I tell police that I have video evidence of a crime happening as well as evidence of the identity of the criminal and they won’t even look at it. I once had a cop tell me that I shouldn’t bother with a report with witnesses and evidence and a known perpetrator since it would never get investigated. That cop got punished for telling the truth, although they were 100% correct, the detective on the case never even opened the file. The detective was not punished. |
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| ▲ | NonHyloMorph 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Lol |
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| ▲ | mschuster91 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > The camera doesn't prevent crime. It just displaces it. Even when it doesn't it will not prevent the crime from happening. It _may_ provide you an opportunity to prosecute the person who committed it. And that is worth something in itself, at least in areas where disputes between people are the norm. Gyms in particular suffer from theft to sexual harassment. | | |
| ▲ | dghlsakjg 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Notably, it can serve that purpose without being part of a national network, or being remotely accessible by a sales team for the camera maker. | |
| ▲ | direwolf20 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Filming people at the gym is sexual harassment. | |
| ▲ | themafia 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Gyms in particular suffer from theft to sexual harassment. And is there any evidence that deploying cameras has changed the rate? Do you want to punish people or do you want to prevent people from being victimized in the first place? |
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| ▲ | rcoder 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| In many cases the people deploying these cameras have no idea the feeds are being resold to Flock. It’s not like they have a consumer brand and people are saying, “oh yeah, Flock, they’re the license plate camera folks…I definitely want one of those in my locker room.” |
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| ▲ | aleksiy123 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | I feel like I’m missing something. There is someone that is making the decision right? Or are you just saying the person placing the cameras is decoupled from the person making the decision to aggregate them all. But I still feel like the accountability is on who is giving the access to sensitive cameras. | | |
| ▲ | l72 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | We are opening up a wellness clinic and we were planning to use a managed service company for internet, network, and security. I was appalled by the managed services suggestions. Privacy of our patients and their data is critical, and the managed service company wants to send all of our feeds to third parties and give third parties direct access to our network. We decided this was a privacy and security risk, and have gone in a completely different direction, but it would not surprise me if most businesses used one of these companies and just went with whatever they suggested without understanding at all what is at stake or who has access to the data. | |
| ▲ | bluGill 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Most often the business hires a security contractor to take care of it, and signs the contract without understanding the terms. You should be able to trust your suppliers enough that you can do the above, they are the experts in the thing (cameras in this thing, but could be things like plumbing or accounting) and you have your own business to run. "Should" is key though, all too often someone doesn't do right by their clients. | | |
| ▲ | TZubiri 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | >Most often the business hires a security contractor to take care of it, and signs the contract without understanding the terms. The bulk of the responsibility here would lie on whoever signed I think. It's one thing to click "I agree" when you are making a SaaS account for downloading cat videos. But at a job, you are getting paid to read these things and to make informed decisions. |
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| ▲ | cogman10 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Or are you just saying the person placing the cameras is decoupled from the person making the decision to aggregate them all. That's exactly what's happening. People are buying webcams which are cheap and have in their ToS something to the effect of "we get to sell everything the camera can see". Which, in turn, allows them to partner with Flock and sell video footage directly to them. Consider the fact that at one point, Amazon partnered with Flock to sell their ring camera footage to Flock. [1] It only got botched because of the creepy superbowl commercial selling the spying as "finding lost puppies". [1] https://apnews.com/article/amazon-flock-super-bowl-surveilla... |
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| ▲ | throw848tjfj 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Why is the camera there in the first place?? I was attacked by "a good dog" and then blamed for provoking the dog (like that is valid excuse for starting an attack). I defended myself, and dog owner joined the attacked together with their dog! After that, I have cameras everywhere, I even record many interactions on my phone. I refuse to be at mercy of random beasts and their "owners". If people start using leashes and muzzles, I may consider taking down cameras! |
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| ▲ | collingreen 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | What does this have to do with cameras covering little kids doing gymnastics? I'm sorry you had a bad experience and using cameras to protect yourself is a thing but filming kids doing gymnastics seems very very far from purely defensive. | | |
| ▲ | throw848tjfj 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Because predators are even at schools! Our school gym park is used as a toilet by dog owners! I want to have video evidence, if some crazy person blames kid for provoking the attack! | | |
| ▲ | dghlsakjg 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That’s understandable. Why does the video footage need to be able to be viewed live, remotely, by a sales team and a prospective client in another state? Predators have access to these cameras. There are numerous instances of police using these systems to stalk women. If I want video proof of what happened at a school, I’m much more comfortable with it being held on premises in a tamper evident location. That eliminates some of the predators from the situation. | |
| ▲ | ashtonshears an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Your trauma is not reason to prescribe privacy invasion on others |
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| ▲ | throw848tjfj 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] |
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| ▲ | 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | amelius 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > Presumably there are people that have access to it. Could also be AI. |