| ▲ | ChrisMarshallNY 6 hours ago |
| I am not arguing against the facts expressed in the piece. This is not an area in which I have any expertise. However, I am a bit uncomfortable with the pithy language used. It's possible (likely, even), that the fired editors deserve the pithiness, but it's still a bit weird to read that kind of prose, in a scientific context. |
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| ▲ | Lerc an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| I'm with you on this. There's a difference between exposing wrongdoing and being antagonistic. Doing them both together increases the amplitude of the signal at the cost of reducing the integrity of the signal. If you wonder why the world is informationally too loud and too noisy these days, it's because everyone who does this is turning up the volume to be louder than others who are also, in turn, turning up the volume for the same reasons. |
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| ▲ | mklyachman 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is an investigative substack, not a piece of academic literature. God forbid the author home some (admittedly, strong) opinions and speaks negatively about fraudsters. |
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| ▲ | mmooss 37 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > This is an investigative substack, not a piece of academic literature. Professional news is usually written without expressing judgement and minimizing opinion. > fraudsters It's an allegation. The author only hurts themself: My impression is that they don't believet the fundamentals of truth and humanity: they are certainly partially wrong, could be very wrong, will never know the complete truth, and their judgment of others is too flawed to rely on. Also it seems they are acting more on their emotions and less on fact and reason. | | |
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| ▲ | ChrisMarshallNY 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Well...the reactions were ... enlightening I certainly apologize for hurting feelings. That was not my intent. I've just learned (the hard way, of course, because how else do we learn?), that using this kind of terminology, even though we may be feeling quite pithy, gives ammo to those that wish to discount us. This goes double, in my experience, for any context that prizes objectivity and articulate discussion. |
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| ▲ | JMKH42 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I am amazed that every time evil is exposed there are people who have to jump in and wonder "Are we being a bit too mean to the evil though?" Makes me wonder if these people are just evil themselves. |
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| ▲ | mananaysiempre 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There are few things I’m afraid of more than a man that thinks himself righteous, because there is very little that such a man would be unwilling to do. So it makes sense to be cautious when I find myself feeling like one, or being pulled along by the emotions of another who does. | | |
| ▲ | idle_zealot 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | You're not wrong about the danger posed, but take a step back and consider who this attitude helps. The greatest beneficiaries of a culture in which good faith and civility are unconditionally granted for fear of misguided righteous anger is a paradise for fraudsters and bad faith actors. I think we're seeing that world now. | | |
| ▲ | mattw2121 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Spot on. Leaders in my company love to tout the line "assume good faith". If you say anything that indicates someone else is not operating in good faith, you are deemed the bad actor. This allows bad actors to run absolutely rampant. | | |
| ▲ | bpt3 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | You can assume good faith initially without having to tolerate a bad actor who invalidates that assumption. It seems like your company leadership missed that part of the lesson. | | |
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| ▲ | trinsic2 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is a good point. I tend to be careful not to fall into this trap myself, but it doesn't really do any good to call it out in public. it ends up empowering the bad actors. Thank you for this awareness. | |
| ▲ | Pay08 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's the same line of reasoning racists use to justify their hatred. I will not have a part in it. | | |
| ▲ | hilariously 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is almost random its such an odd response. Unconditionally granting good faith should be given to people because... racism. | | |
| ▲ | Pay08 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Do you know the amount of times I've been lectured about "Holocaust Privilege" using the same line of logic? Because I don't, I have long lost count. | | |
| ▲ | idle_zealot 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | There's a depressingly common tactic of using the Holocaust to defend current genocide and atrocities, one that has been very effective until recently. It's exactly the kind of strategy that always assuming good faith allows for, and what I'm warning against. Unfortunately, the backlash against allowing bad actors to use victims as a shield is emboldening bigots. Another knock-on danger of the culture of unlimited civility is that it will eventually end and the overcorrection will see a lot undeserving people hurt. | | |
| ▲ | TheOtherHobbes an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Tone policing is a time-honoured tactic for devaluing valid opposition. | |
| ▲ | Pay08 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Go fuck yourself you piece of shit. | | |
| ▲ | idle_zealot 44 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Aw, that's too bad. My comment as originally drafted floated that you might be participating in that tactic, but I changed it because it could've been interpreted as accusatory. I offered you an assumption of good faith, and got burned for it again. Eventually this will train really bad behavior. I promise to try my best to keep it focused on the knowing defenders of genocide and fight the tide of antisemitism you're causing. |
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| ▲ | mmooss 35 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > consider who this attitude helps It helps the good people, who do good and influence their society to do the same, and live in a good society. The best societies give the accused the full protection of the law, and give them fair trials. The problematic ones have mob rule. Much of what you write assumes the OP author and you know what evil is, with certainty. That is the critical and most dangerous flaw. |
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| ▲ | blueflow 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It comes from having the sort of parents whose behavior warrants this kind of suspicions. | |
| ▲ | pessimizer 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I've decided that it's a weird reversed counterpart to "impostor syndrome" (when you secretly think you're not that good while trying your best to maintain a professional standard.) I think there's this sort of "moral impostor syndrome" where people who carefully work to present an image of themselves as good people are totally willing to participate in fraud or theft at any level - the only consideration is whether they will be caught, because they value the appearance of being good people (and of course, that appearance gives them more opportunities to commit fraud and theft safely.) If they want to do something and there's no way they'll be caught, they'll do it 100% of the time. This is the only way I can understand people who refer to fraud as a "mistake." They see other people caught in a fraud that they can imagine that they themselves might have done, because they also wouldn't have thought that they would have ever been caught. The "mistake" was evaluating the chances of the success of a fraud badly. The fact that they relate to these people also makes them want to give them a second chance, just as they would want to be able to recover their careers if any of their past (or future) frauds had become "mistakes." "There but for the grace of God go I." It's terrible. It incentivizes evil. The desperation to give people a second chance to expiate one's own secret sins by proxy creates a system where people only initially draw attention through frauds, then get caught, then get second chances. Meanwhile, people who didn't participate in fraud never get noticed. It's a perverse incentive that filters for trash. Do anything to get your name out there, then the fact that your name is out there gets you into the conversation. Meanwhile, somebody is scolding you for being upset about it: "You're just perfect I guess. Never made a mistake." Fraud is not a mistake. You do it on purpose. | |
| ▲ | ChrisMarshallNY 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
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| ▲ | fancyfredbot 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I thought the caption "looking normal" was possibly a bit unnecessary. Then again, I also found it rather funny. I suspect this is because I am a bad person. |
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| ▲ | _will_ 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Maybe I'm just naive or dense, but I'm not seeing language I'd be concerned about in the article? Help me get calibrated, is there something in particular that bothers you? or just a general vibe? |
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| ▲ | ajcp an hour ago | parent [-] | | > Despite working at a terrible school Literally zero need for that; none. And it's that kind of language that calls into question the authors motives. I went from "Excellent reporting here" to "This guy is emotional and not a reliable source of information" in 6 words. |
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