| ▲ | Scroll_Swe 2 days ago |
| >- it is just a beautiful thing to see it slowly fall apart. I feel uneasy over China dominance as much as the US. I trust US more still as Europe has a post WW2 relationship. I notice many comments being pro China but they seem to be from the third world (one mentioned a very low salary) I feel the opening of the internet was a mistake. China is a totilitarian dictatorship. This is a fact. Look into Mistral AI too :) For context, I am Swedish. Yes this is a new account, please focus on the content. |
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| ▲ | riskd 2 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| Are third world users opinions of lesser value? |
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| ▲ | glenstein 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Are there distinct third world opinions in one direction or the other? I've tended to assume they are non-unitary rather than broadly converging on one side or the other. | |
| ▲ | GorbachevyChase 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Come on, Sweden isn’t quite a 3rd world country. | |
| ▲ | Scroll_Swe 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | When people from developing countries praise China and communism while criticizing the United States and claiming “Europe is the same,” I find it hard to take their views seriously. I think their stance often comes from a strong anti-Western bias, and sometimes from feelings of resentment. | | |
| ▲ | nixon_why69 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Is it possible that you're missing something or not fully understanding their viewpoint? | | |
| ▲ | sublimee 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | As someone coming from the Second world (Eastern Bloc), lived in the First world (Western Europe) and now living in the Third World (SEA Tropics), I'd say that in my opinion, a lot of the Westeners are so inherently arrogant that they don't even realize that. Some of these people would rather die from own arrogance, rather than imagining the other point of view. | | |
| ▲ | 20 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | Scroll_Swe a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | Because we know that 150 years ago where where poor as hell and now Scandinavia tops all lists in quality of life. That does not just happen. Yes, NORWAY have oil. The rest of us do not. So how can we successed yet we have to keep dumping money into the third world forever? | | |
| ▲ | 21 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | 0rzech 20 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Q.E.D. :) | | |
| ▲ | Scroll_Swe an hour ago | parent [-] | | I was about to reply to your long reply then you edited to this and I got rate limited. Anyway I hope you experience the downfall of the west you people cheer on up close and personal. |
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| ▲ | glenstein 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Certainly, just as much is true in reverse, or in every direction for that matter, which is why we end up falling back to substance. | | |
| ▲ | nixon_why69 a day ago | parent [-] | | It's not nearly as true in the other direction, because American culture and media are everywhere. The fact that they know more about you than you do about them should give you hints that you're missing some substance. |
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| ▲ | idiotsecant 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The third world has the hustle and vitality that the US is slowly losing. We ignore that at our own peril. | | |
| ▲ | volkk 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Hustle and vitality borne out of generally horrible conditions. I'll take what the "first world" has any day. | | |
| ▲ | Rooster61 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Hard times make for strong men (and women)... This might be cliche, but it has truth to it. Nothing drives production and innovation quite like scarcity and financial adversity. | | |
| ▲ | volkk 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Yep. And then it reverses, and then again, and again... | | |
| ▲ | falcor84 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Well, that is what's in the ellipsis in the parent's quote: "Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times" G. Michael Hopf | | |
| ▲ | volkk a day ago | parent [-] | | I know thanks. i was mostly just replying to the last sentence of their comment like in a conversation |
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| ▲ | Der_Einzige 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | nixon_why69 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Just for context on "laziness", do you work at a desk all day? Second question, how many animals have you personally killed prior to cleaning and cooking? | |
| ▲ | darkwater 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Is this supposed to be sarcasm? |
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| ▲ | bigyabai 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | It truly depends on perspective. I can think of a lot of nations that are rightfully critical of American leadership, especially economically. Investment vehicles like data science and cryptocurrency has given the United States a reputation for spinning fake technology out of thin air. Chinese LLMs positively contribute to the market economy and incentivize American AI businesses to work harder. I take these concerns seriously as a voting American. My 401k is worthless if the US continues to reward anticompetitive monopolies. |
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| ▲ | 0x737368 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| And then westerners wonder why they're disliked in the rest of the world... |
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| ▲ | pb7 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | You are on a Western website. | | |
| ▲ | bilbo0s 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | What's that got to do with them not liking us? Serious question. Studying adversaries is, generally speaking, accepted military wisdom among the commissioned ranks of most of the planet's armies. | |
| ▲ | idiotsecant 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | There is not such a thing. That's the point. Everyone is welcome on the internet, where information wants to be free. I still believe that, even if it is no longer fashionable. | | |
| ▲ | nozzlegear 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > Everyone is welcome on the internet, where information wants to be free. Well, except in some countries where they wall themselves off from everyone else. | | |
| ▲ | subw00f 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Oh yeah? Weird. I just went into Zhihu, read a few posts, commented on others. I guess the Chinese communist party will poison me anytime soon. | | |
| ▲ | nozzlegear 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Nice! Now go on Zhihu and ask someone in China to do the same with Facebook or Twitter, sans VPN. |
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| ▲ | Scroll_Swe a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | torginus 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The content we see here is that you are Swedish. I am not sure what sort of moral, technical, financial authority are we supposed to be deriving from this. Dont get me wrong, Sweden is a cool country, but still my point stands. |
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| ▲ | bigyabai 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| FWIW, I am a lifelong American citizen and I exclusively use Chinese AI models for programming because I consider Claude and Codex to be highway robbery for the price. Trust whoever you want, I just don't have the patience (or money) for American models. |
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| ▲ | platinumrad 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > I notice many comments being pro China but they seem to be from the third world (one mentioned a very low salary) I feel the opening of the internet was a mistake. Yeah, I also really hate when poor people think they're allowed to talk. |
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| ▲ | Der_Einzige 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Opening of the internet WAS a mistake. During times when whole countries (you know which ones) get geoblocked, the internet (especially online gaming) gets a lot better. |
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| ▲ | 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [deleted] |
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| ▲ | shimman 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Honestly the China scare mongering is borderline hilarious. The US has literally attacked two countries this year in the span of weeks and is blockading another causing needless deaths. Not too mention the last 50 years of US imperialism making the world a worse place for everyone, except to benefit the few (doesn't benefit Americans, only capitalists). The idea that China is worse than America is laughable. LMK when China invades 5 countries in a span of 20 years unimpeded by anyone else in the world and maybe I'll be scared. Until then it's quite clear how consumers benefit from actual competition and it's not because of the US. Also you saying you trust the US when they just threatened to invade Greenland (a threat so credible that Denmark was planning a full scale resistance against US troops). Sorry but the curtains are truly coming down and the US will become one of the most hated nations in the world while 100s of millions will needlessly starve and die because of the actions of Americans that simply don't give a fuck. FWIW, I'm not just talking about Trump either. Democratic politicians are just as much to blame, they champion corporatism and imperialism as much as Republicans and the only issues D leadership seems to have is that the "right process" wasn't being followed. I say this as someone who is a literal democratic operative within the party. |
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| ▲ | glenstein 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | One party authoritarian dictatorship with no free speech or democratic elections and no civil rights movement seems pretty bad to me. No amount of whataboutism is ever going to compete with that. It also seems like clashes with India, every southeast asian country with internationally recognized territory rights in the South China sea, the forcible takeover of Hong Kong, arming and economically supporting Russia, Pakistan and Iran are bad, and the increasing probability of a hot war to take over Taiwan should count as bad, perhaps the most urgently dangerous threat to global peace in the 21st century. The United States track record post WW2 is a complicated combination of monstrously immoral Kissenger and Bush style overthrows of democracies and genuinely valuable maintenance of a post WW2 democratic order focused on things like free speech and human rights. I stay with full sincerity that in the decade plus that I've been here on hn seeing whataboutism as a strategy for defending China, I'm yet to encounter anything that feels like a sincere engagement with United States role in the world as a combination of positives and negatives, it's always flatly one-sided messaging that feels like it's aimed at a favorable audience that already agree rather than like it's sincerely attempting to persuade. | | |
| ▲ | Hardwired8976 a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Cool that you completely ignore the US economically and militarily supporting Isreal | |
| ▲ | shimman 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Your first sentence describes the US for the last 40 years. One corporate party that passes legislation to benefit the elites while there are no counter civil rights movements where US citizens are literally less free than they were 10 years ago. The US was birthed as a white ethno-national colonial state. It required 20% of the population to be held in bondage while denying suffrage to 80% of the population. It took 100 years + a civil war before slavery was ended, and it took nearly another 100 years before every American could truly vote. Not because it was the "right time" either, go look at how the women's suffrage movement started. They were fire bombing factories and capitalists. The propaganda surely runs deep, but something tells me you're too rich to really suffer so congrats I guess. I'm sure many wish they could trade places with your privilege. I bet those that will suffer from needless starvation or lack of medical care due to US imperialism would really like to trade places too. Sorry but these boogey man acts fall flat when you look at how hostile and anti-human the US government has become over the recent decades. You can't blame this on one person, the system was always rotten and a course correction will happen. You just better pray it's the right people directing the ship. | | |
| ▲ | matchbok3 a day ago | parent [-] | | Please take your virtue signaling somewhere else. This is a tech forum, not a grandstand for your slogan-ridden, college freshman diatribes. | | |
| ▲ | shimman a day ago | parent [-] | | Sorry that it makes you uncomfortable to realize that slavers built this nation and enforced their will on the majority of the country by creating a government where elites control the country through minority rule. I bet you think the 3/5's compromise was just good governance too right? That's pragmatic centrism we desperately need in modern times! If it makes you feel better I'll also include this in the help text of my next neovim plugin. |
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| ▲ | scottyah 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | So you're good with the takeover of Hong Kong and what they're doing with the Uyghurs? I think you're getting a pretty biased feed of news. I'm not saying China is the devil, but the trite "USA bad because [overhyped recent news]" is a crazy take. There's plenty of bad stuff that has been done by Americans you could have called out. | | |
| ▲ | shimman 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Not really as I am a commoner and don't really benefit with whatever happens. I'm sure the executives at Walmart or Google care, but this will never impact the lives of 99% of the US population. I'm more concerned with police brutality, US born children suffering induced poverty by the elites, women that are forced to either die or be jailed for seeking medical treatment, the legalized torture of children that happen to be not straight, the suffering of 100s of millions of Americans failing to get medical treatment, the creation of concentration camps, a masked police force that isn't being held accountable, ignoring due process while torturing people into compliance. I'm concerned with how we let people that profit off of misery and mass death, because that is surely coming back to haunt us. 2025 proved how easily things can get worse, and humans in general do not have a good imagination when it comes to seeing how worse things can continue to get. What I do care about is the rising authoritarianism inside the US. The US was literally birthed as a white colonial ethno-national state that could only exist because it held 20% of the population in bondage. A strand of evil this nation has never gotten rid of and has allowed to multiple and propagate around the world. The most evil sides of human existence all seem to find their way point back to the US constitution or US customers, a document written by slavers to uphold slavers and empower the elites over the population, from Apartheid South Africa to genocide by Israel + US leaders to the Nazi regime itself. We are mired in a disgusting history and have never accounted for the horrors we wrought upon the world because the elites wanted to make more money. We never truly were held accountable to the death squads we support across South America or how we forced US marines to fight for corporate interests in the banana wars. We destabilized entire nations, 100s of millions of people, then act shock when it comes home to roost. Do I really have to go over the history of the last 40 years too? Sorry man, go read a book. Absolutely pathetic that Americans don't even know their own history. You should absolutely read it because a large portion of this earth are going to suffer massive consequences due to US imperialism and we're going to be on the receiving end of it for the rest of our short lives. Sorry man but you have the crazy take. The US was only a consistent force of good when FDR was in-charge and the New Deal coalition held majorities in both houses of Congress for 60+ years; but we also see their follies in Vietnam + Cambodia (fun fact, children still born in those countries with birth defects due to the highly inventive American weapons (it's okay they had well paying jobs)). --- People truly don't understand that US foreign politics is done to solely benefit the elite + rich, while everyone else suffers (yes even US civilians, we're the ones that will get violence inflicted upon us not the elites). Wake up. |
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| ▲ | avazhi 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Did you miss the part where Iran spent the past 50 years promising to develop nuclear weapons and then use them on both Israel and America, or do just choose to conveniently ignore that when you go on rants like this? In one of the last rounds of talks before the war Kushner and Witkoff offered Iran free nuclear fuel in perpetuity in exchange for the weapons grade uranium and got turned down, so clearly the Iranians weren’t just bluffing. This war could have been handled much differently and better, but acting like America attacked Iran for no reason is laughable. It is in fact America’s inexplicable reticence to kill Iranian civilians that is the reason this is going on for this long. America could have ended this in a few days if it had stopped worrying about being criticised by the rest of the world that hates it anyway. https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/07/us/politics/trump-iran-wa... | | |
| ▲ | jst1fthsdys 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > Did you miss the part where Iran spent the past 50 years promising to develop nuclear weapons and then use them on both Israel and America The Ayatollah had a fatwa against the development of nuclear weapons. You are just making things up. > In one of the last rounds of talks before the war Kushner and Witkoff No, they didn't. They lied and sabotaged the talks. The diplomacy, much like right now, was to misdirect Iran. Which is why they refuse to negotiate now. > America could have ended this in a few days Ahh, the fascist delusion. Violence overcomes all. | | |
| ▲ | avazhi 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Not that you care, but for others that might, the nuclear fuel offer was reported by the NYT and other outlets, including The Economist, that can't in any way be accused of pandering to the Trump admin. https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/07/us/politics/trump-iran-wa... > At one point, they offered the Iranians free nuclear fuel for the life of their program — a test of whether Tehran’s insistence on enrichment was truly about civilian energy or about preserving the ability to build a bomb. The Iranians rejected the offer, calling it an assault on their dignity. | | |
| ▲ | shimman a day ago | parent [-] | | Yes, why would Iran reject an offer from a government that tore up previous agreements, had their leaders assassinated, had sanctions inflicted upon them for decades, and even had chemical weapons used against them provided by the same government that wants to make a deal with them now? Why would they reject such an offer from obviously good faith actors, are they stupid? | | |
| ▲ | avazhi a day ago | parent [-] | | > Yes, why would Iran reject an offer from a government Because they were trying to get nukes so they could use them against Israel and America, as they've promised to do for decades. I believe the Americans did what is called calling one's bluff. The ayatollahs were never a serious government. FAFO, as they say. | | |
| ▲ | shimman 16 hours ago | parent [-] | | Every country on this Earth will now seek nukes because of the actions we see on display. Nuclear proliferation is the only way to practice sovereignty, and nuclear proliferation will surely lead to the destruction of humanity as it becomes increasingly unlikely that a nuclear exchange won't happen sometime within the next 10,000 years. FA and FO indeed. Oh and dedollarization is now something that may happen within 5 years and not like 50 years. Oh and 100s of millions will needlessly suffer and die because of these actions, but seeing how little you value human life in your other comments I'm going to stop myself here and wish you a good existence. | | |
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| ▲ | shimman 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | LOL I'm sorry but I can't believe people whole heartedly swallow such propaganda. "but tHeY PLANn3d for 50 years!!11!" HAHAHAHA. Have a good life dude. |
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| ▲ | tigershark 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| China never threatened this: "A whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again.". Also China never announced that it was going to attack Europe. I trust them much more compared to a malignant narcissist that doesn't care if the whole world burns now that he doesn't have much left to live. |
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| ▲ | pckd 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There is no morality at Country level. The talk about values, morality, just world is only a lip service and pretty much every smart person knows this. If you still want to hold a country for moral standards, our own dear USA's standards would be pathetically low. One example - we force and demand every other country to use USD as the reserve currency. If anyone considers the alternative, we follow the usual routines (bombing, hacking, kidnapping, Tarrifs, coercing, currency sabotage, etc). If two countries in some remote corner of world want to exchange goods and transact in their own local currency, what legal rights does the USA have to stop it and force them to use USD? and punish them if they do not listen? Just because we are aligned with Western Europe, do not assume moral high grounds. |
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| ▲ | nozzlegear 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > If two countries in some remote corner of world want to exchange goods and transact in their own local currency, what legal rights does the USA have to stop it and force them to use USD? China and Russia trade in yuan and rubles. India and Russia do oil deals in rupees. China and Brazil trade in yuan. The US hasn't bombed any of them. | | |
| ▲ | pckd 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Yes, we have not' bombed them because they are too big. But, we tried every other option. Pressurize them, sanction them. US Treasury even targeted the ships used for their trade, blocked insurance companies from insuring the route, targeted banks/people/entities for sanctions and did all sort of underground dirty work. Because of all this, the India-Iran oil deal is only intermittent, not continuous. There are windows of time where India/Iran are permitted to trade oil. Similar stories involving Russia. Their Stablecoin exchanges get hacked, people disappear. If you dig deeper, you will know more about SWIFT, Plaza Accord and other ways of how USA bullies the world. Can you tell any smaller/weaker neighboring countries trading in their own local currency? Can Vietnam trade with Cambodia skipping the USD? not just for denominations, but the actual trade itself. |
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| ▲ | hnsdev 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I don't see any sense in trusting the US more than China. There are arguably as many arguments to say the US is horrible as the current dominant country as China would be. If anything, a multipolar world would be more positive, specially to the EU, as currently the EU is just US's bitch, and has to live by appeasing Mr. Donny, as done in the stupid trade deal signed by Von Der Leyen. Also, feeling the opening of the internet as a mistake show the degree of your ignorance, people from third world countries also have the right to speak as much as you do, your opinion is not more valid than anyone else's. For context, I am Italian-Brazilian, so I pretty much have been exposed to both sides (western and non-western, even though we can argue that Brazil is more west aligned). |
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