| ▲ | b40d-48b2-979e 4 hours ago |
| You may have a cool product in the field of sports betting, casinos, or
lotteries. But almost all social networks and search engines won’t let you
advertise without a license from the required jurisdiction.
Good. You should face social stigma for creating products that literally ruin people's lives. |
|
| ▲ | joosters 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I think the more relevant point is: But almost all social networks and search engines won’t let you advertise without a license from the required jurisdiction. Which is a good thing! This is an area full of scammers, if you can't set up your business legally, I'm very happy to hear it's more difficult for you to advertise it. |
| |
| ▲ | sigmoid10 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I mean, you also can't advertise illegal drugs either. Doesn't seem to curb demand though. It may actually be more beneficial to allow these things more broadly, because then social safety features can be wedged in between consumers and suppliers more easily and they don't have to deal with a gigantic shadow market that already gets stigmatised to death by the rest of the population. Just accept that a certain percentage of the populations has screwed up dopamine households and try to keep them away from gangsters as best you can. That would probably help society as a whole more than banning everything and pretending the problem goes away if you close your eyes. | | |
| ▲ | VectorLock 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | >Doesn't seem to curb demand though. Because its an addictive product. See also: gambling. | | |
| ▲ | sigmoid10 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | That's literally the content of this discussion? Or did you want to say something else? | | |
|
|
|
|
| ▲ | antonymoose 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Not to mention the entitlement of startups to just flaunt laws and regulations. Still kills me to this day Uber and AirBNB running illegal billion dollar operations. I suppose one can at least say Uber mitigates drunk driving tendencies. As far as AirBNB goes, it can rot straight in hell. My hometown is now 20% AirBNB, they ran illegally for many years, and this completely prices out normal folks trying to live near their families. |
| |
| ▲ | RHSeeger 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I don't have a problem with them actively choosing to break laws to protest the laws themselves; to try to get them changed. Civil disobedience is a long standing practice. However, part of doing that is facing the consequences of breaking those laws; being arrested, etc. Just because _you_ think the law isn't just doesn't mean it's not a law - it just means you think it should be changed. And the companies in question break the law and then whine and complain like they shouldn't need to face the consequences; like the law shouldn't apply to them because they don't think it's fair. | | |
| ▲ | watwut 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Meh. What they are doing is NOT civil disobedience and protest. What they are doing is just normal breaking the law for profit thing. That being said, I also dont think that civil disobedience means you have to accept whatever harsh punishment whatever authoritarian is using. It is actually ok to avoid those. |
| |
| ▲ | lopsotronic an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | If you can figure out a Gig Economy way to get robot/remote/AI pilots into airline cockpits, you will make a mint. "What? I can save ten bucks on airfare if I accept a robot pilot? GIVE ME THAT TICKET" A mint we will then need to spend on bribes to ALPA. DoT is almost entirely captured now, so that's less of a problem. In fact, here's a much better get-rich app / scheme: use AI to find regulatory situations that are both easy to break and profitable to break and where enforcement is usually just done to poor people. The Ubermaker. Why dig a gold mine when you can sell the shovels. |
|
|
| ▲ | jmkd 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There are plenty of other products that literally ruin people's lives: alcohol, tobacco, sugar, pharmaceuticals, credit cards, firearms, timeshares, junk food. Society has them all on very different parts of a stigma spectrum. Honest question: why is this line so clear for you? |
| |
| ▲ | cael450 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There is a stigma with all of those things except maybe pharmaceuticals (unless you are selling opioids), sugar and junk food (because of their ubiquity). The line is clear for some people right away. Other people have to see the effects first hand. When I was younger, I worked in a gas station, and the never-ending line of obviously poor people dropping nearly their entire paychecks on scratchoffs, then buying a case of beer was a formative memory for me. It most states, the lottery is just subsidizing the cost of education on the backs of the poor and uneducated and gambling-addicted so that they don't have to raise property taxes. And that's if the money actually gets spent on education. Sometimes they just turn into slushfunds for pet projects. It's gross. | |
| ▲ | malfist 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Honest question, why isn't the line so clear for you? We're talking about a product built to make people's lives worse while extracting wealth from them that get them addicted as well. | | |
| ▲ | derangedHorse an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | "Built to make people's lives worse" is an opinion. There are people who gamble without getting addicted and treat it as good fun. Why shouldn't I be able to bet a small amount on a team I like in Fantasy Football? I've never gambled more than I could afford to lose nor have I felt the need to do it habitually. I get that there are some people who are not like me, but you seem to think that there are only people who are not like me that use these types of services. | |
| ▲ | embedding-shape 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > We're talking about a product built to make people's lives worse while extracting wealth from them that get them addicted as well. That's most of the products being sold today, you think the most for-profit companies sell things and services in order to improve the world? They're selling stuff because they want to make money, if they can make someone addicted + extract wealth from them, then in their world that's a no-brainer. | | |
| ▲ | malfist 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > That's most of the products being sold today That's just not true at all. The fruit I buy is designed to make my life worse? The vacuum cleaner? The lawn mower? The workout equipment? The standing desk for my office? The clothing I buy? | | |
| ▲ | embedding-shape 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, literally all those things are decreasing in quality because the companies producing and selling these want higher margins. Have you not noticed the sharp drop in quality and durability in made stuff compared to 20-30 years ago? Almost all those things are worse and lasts less today than they used to. | | |
| ▲ | Edman274 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Do you feel and have the subjective experience of feeling like you're arguing in good faith right now? | |
| ▲ | bombcar 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | There's some cases where that may be true, but they listed a few: * fruit - I can get any fruit anytime in the year, and it seems fine * vacuum cleaner - my Miele is still running ten years later and still available new * The lawn mower - the M18 mower cuts great and uses no gas and just works - much better than the previous PoS * workout equipment - I don't have much here, but my rowing machine is still going strong * standing desk - the uplift desk seems quite good quality * clothing - this might be the only one, but even the walmart crap I get is better than the walmart crap from a decade ago |
|
|
| |
| ▲ | an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | jmkd 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Okay sounds like we agree that sugar and junk food should be on the wrong side of the line, but turns out those industries have very little stigma. Who is standing outside the school gates protesting against big cola? My point is it's complicated, ambiguous, sometimes hypocritical, differs by jurisdiction and so on. None of it is clear. | |
| ▲ | darkwater 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Half of the list by GP shares these same characteristics, unfortunately. The only one that is slowly - but not even steadily - going towards the same stigma is tobacco. | |
| ▲ | egorfine 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The majority of food sold in the US satisfies the criteria you have laid out here. Is the line still clear? | | |
| ▲ | malfist 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | My neighbor got robbed the other day walking home from work. That means it's okay for me to rob them too, right? |
| |
| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
| |
| ▲ | sakisv 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Not the original person you replied to, but as far as I'm concerned there are a few questions that could very easily indicate which side of the line is something. E.g. - Is it addictive? - Does it have the potential to destroy lives? - Does it have the potential to destroy lives in seconds? - Does it have a strong lobbying mechanism behind it? (n.b. things that are good and nice rarely need someone to bribe people to accept them) or simply: - Would you be worried if your child did it? I think the number of "yes" that you get draws a very clear line. | | |
| ▲ | egorfine 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | These questions sound very rational until you realize that sugar, performance cars, military technology and history lessons can tick all those boxes. | | |
| ▲ | submerge 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Can you recommend a history lesson that will destroy my life in seconds? Book, podcast, youtube would all be acceptable formats. | | |
| ▲ | egorfine 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | You might want to research russia's war in Ukraine a little bit to learn how history lessons destroy lives in seconds. |
|
| |
| ▲ | jmkd 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Your question ramp makes sense to me except in two ways: 1. why this "destroy lives in seconds?" question? 2. where do you see sugar sitting here? | | |
| ▲ | sakisv an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I wanted to draw the distinction between something that destroys lives over a longer period of time (smoking) VS something like gambling where you could lose your life's savings in seconds. The alcohol mentioned in a sibling comment also ticks the box. For the sugar, I'd say yes, no, no, yes and "not too much, but I'm keeping an eye out". | |
| ▲ | ambicapter 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | He's obviously talking about alcohol (it takes seconds to consume an amount of alcohol that can result in death, yours or someone else's from a fight or car crash) and firearms (should be obvious). Sounds like you're implying some sort of mischaracterization of sugar here which minimizes the former in a weird way. |
|
| |
| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | BigTTYGothGF 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Just because there's a spectrum doesn't mean that everything on it is indistinguishable. Everybody draws their own lines, some people count more or fewer things as stigmata, some people's lines are fuzzier than others. | |
| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | gempir 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | No single person can draw that line, that's what Courts and Laws are for. And some of the industries play more dirty and try to manipulate that due process, others failed. But that's what we have, it's never black & white. Always a process and always evolving. |
|
|
| ▲ | egorfine 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| One of the major problems of society today is that we took liberty to impose our own specific pack of moral principles on others because obviously it's the only infallible reference set in the world and everybody who doesn't agree is genuinely a bad person. |
|
| ▲ | nickflw 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| So true. I wish alcohol, tobacco, gun and insurance companies and their employees faced the same stigma. |
| |
| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | engineer_22 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I live in New York. A very old very famous manufacturer of firearms, Remington Arms, which employed hundreds of people and was the economic engine of its community was forced by the State of New York to shut down. That community cannot replace what was lost when the factory closed. Poverty, crime, drugs have moved in to the void. You may be right that guns are are corrosive to a democratic society, that's an open debate. But the people who depended on that factory had the rug pulled and real harm was done without any regard to their welfare. And not everyone who depended on the factory worked there, deli owners and dry cleaners, these types of legitimate businesses are damaged when a major employer closes doors. I suppose I relate this story to you just to show that, there are other people who think like you, guns are stigmatized, and it has a real human cost. We should not be flippant with our neighbor's well being, because we can't predict the turns of fate, one day it might be our turn. | | |
| ▲ | malfist 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Your statement is not grounded in the truth. Remnington did not shut down because of government interference. They employed a grand total of 100 people in NY. Hardly the "economic engine of its community" They shutdown because they sold 7.5 million guns that could fire without someone pulling the trigger and 60 minutes exposed it. And you should know that their building is being converted into a 250,000 sqft AI data center. So it's not like employment is just lost in the area. | | |
| ▲ | BigTTYGothGF 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > their building is being converted into a 250,000 sqft AI data center Haven't the locals suffered enough already? | |
| ▲ | usui 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | What are you talking about regarding firing guns without pulling the trigger? | | |
| |
| ▲ | BigTTYGothGF an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > forced by the State of New York to shut down Could you expand on this a little bit? Are you referring to the NY SAFE act? I'm seeing a few lines in their wiki page that suggest otherwise: * In June 2007, a private equity firm, Cerberus Capital Management, acquired Remington Arms for $370 million, including $252 million in assumed debt. * Remington filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in March 2018, having accumulated over $950 million in debt * In July 2020, Remington again filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. | |
| ▲ | aniviacat 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You could justify the existence of any employer with that reasoning though, no matter how evil. Any reasoning that can justify even an absurdly evil employer's existence is flawed. | |
| ▲ | master-lincoln 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | straw man argument. This was about social stigma of weapons and you told a story about a factory being force closed and the surrounding community degrading by that. We should not keep bad things alive just because jobs depend on it. | | | |
| ▲ | engineer_22 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Malfist your comment seethes with condescension. Thanks for your perspective, but I've been on the ground, I know the truth. | | |
|
|
|
| ▲ | bilekas 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I was having this discussion the other day with a friend, I do believe as an adult you should be allowed to do anything you want providing you're not harming others. That said, there is a HUGE need for more regulation around advertising, cut off limits and companies recognising users with a problem. If you take a Bar for example, most barmen will notice you're already drunk as hell and cut you off, probably kick you out if not get you some water etc. It's actually a legal requirement to stop at some point in countries. Casinos on the other hand, if you are down 99,000 out of your 100,000 with zero hands of games won, that casino is going to plow you with a good time until it has that last 1,000. It's disgusting. I hate gambling , I've seen its effect on friends of mine and their families. But I would never stop an adult doing what they want, while knowing the risks. |
| |
| ▲ | watwut 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Unlicensed casinos and betting apps harm others. | | |
| ▲ | bilekas 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | So would an Unlicensed Speakeasy, but I can't include them in the post or else everything would be destructive. I'm not defending Gambling at all, just highlighting there is a difference in how they are allowed to behave, which I also don't agree with. Asking a casino to behave better is never going to work, adding more regulations and stricter licensing might. The fact that betting companies are now allowed to advertise and sponsor sports is an incredible negative step. |
| |
| ▲ | Ylpertnodi 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Always keep 900 for emergencies. |
|
|
| ▲ | is_true 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| *Won't let you DIRECTLY advertise, you need an extra step, create a property that is not "yours". |