| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 19 hours ago |
| What made the Israel-Palestine conflict profitable for influencers (initially on both sides, I’d guess mostly on the pro-Palestinian side now) before the Iran War that doesn’t apply to Sudan? |
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| ▲ | MisterTea 18 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| The Sudanese population and diaspora hold no great financial or political influence globally so they have no visibility hence, no audience. |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 17 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Sudanese population and diaspora hold no great financial or political influence globally so they have no visibility hence, no audience This makes sense. But the Palestinian diaspora is tiny. Did it really kickstart the economics for new content? | |
| ▲ | the_arun 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | We need to say Sudan has natural resources. Eg Oil. The world turns around | | |
| ▲ | Symmetry 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | It does have oil. And the reason the UAE is backing the RSF is that they have gold interests there. |
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| ▲ | AndrewKemendo 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The most accurate way to say it indeed |
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| ▲ | KumaBear 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Well from a moral perspective our tax dollars are funding the weapons used in the conflict. |
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| ▲ | dralley 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | From moral perspective, the same entities (UAE, Qatar) who have done the most to raise the profile of the I/P conflict with funds and media campaigns are directly funding and sending weapons to the parties responsible for the genocide in Sudan. Which has much clearer properties of "genocide" than the I/P war, and killed 3 times as many people in the same timeframe despite having far more primitive and less powerful weaponry involved. >> In the first three days of the capture, at least 6,000 killings were documented. 4,400 inside the city. 1,600 more along escape routes. The UN writes explicitly that the actual death toll from the week-long offensive was “undoubtedly significantly higher”. The governor of Darfur spoke of 27,000 killed in the first three days alone. The Khartoum-based think tank Confluence Advisory estimated 100,000. The Yale Humanitarian Research Lab assessed that of the 250,000 civilians remaining in the city, nearly all had been killed, died, been displaced, or were in hiding. >> RSF fighters, according to survivor testimony, said things like “Is there anyone Zaghawa here? If we find Zaghawa, we will kill them all” and “We want to eliminate anything black from Darfur”. Men and boys under 50 were specifically targeted, killed or abducted. Women and girls of the Zaghawa and Fur communities were systematically raped, often in groups, sometimes for hours or days. Those perceived as Arab were often spared.” | | |
| ▲ | sosomoxie 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | > the same entities (UAE, Qatar) who have done the most to raise the profile of the I/P conflict with funds and media campaigns Israel and its MSM media outlets in the west are the only people “raising the profile” of the colonization of Palestine. Every US politician promotes Israel to the point where they can hardly be said to represent American citizens. That is why people in the west stand against Zionism. It has nothing to do with Qatari boogeymen. |
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| ▲ | testdelacc1 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There are large groups of people have very strongly negative opinions about one side or the other in Israel-Palestine. Only a tiny fraction of people in Europe or North America could point to Sudan on the map. And even fewer could explain the differences between the factions involved. There’s no simple good-guys-vs-bad-guys rhetoric that’s easy to join. |
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| ▲ | tovej 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | I mean, the RSF is very clearly the bad guys in this conflict. The reason there is no coverage is that there is widespread agreement on this point, and western govts aren't directly funding the bad guys as is the case with Israel. | | |
| ▲ | harvey9 18 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Another reason there's no coverage is nobody in Sudan has the social media expertise and budget that Iran has. | |
| ▲ | notabotiswear 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Both side are the “bad side.”
The RSF just wins the award of being the “worst.” | |
| ▲ | Mainan_Tagonist 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | western governments funding Israel? What western governments exactly? Isn't Israel capable of funding itself through its own economy? | | |
| ▲ | testdelacc1 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | America hands out military aid to Israel. Coupons that can be redeemed for weapons with American manufacturers. It’s a subsidy to Israel and to American military primes. This comes to billions each year. That’s one government though. I can’t think of any other western government funding Israel in a similar way. | | |
| ▲ | Mainan_Tagonist 18 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | "That’s one government though. I can’t think of any other western government funding Israel in a similar way." My point, exactly! | |
| ▲ | tovej 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Germany, Great Britain, Finland, many other European partners. They are purchasing military equipment from Israel, funding their development. Many European institutions also have investments in Israel. And arms used in the Palestinian genocide are being produced in European countries. | | |
| ▲ | testdelacc1 16 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don’t think that would be the common meaning of funding. Funding doesn’t mean “have a commercial relationship with”. | | |
| ▲ | tovej 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's not just a commercial relationship, Israel is dependent on US subsidies and European trade to fund its war effort, and Europe has shown itself to be very slow at reacting to the genocide. Effectively Europes stance is funding the genocide. Whether a lawyer would consider this funding is besides the point. I think there are very concrete ways to argue that what Europe does would constitute funding, but I don't particularly care about that semantic argument. The main point is that Europes actions support the genocide. |
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| ▲ | anovikov 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I don't get it, why? RSF fights on Ukrainian side, SAF on Russian since 2024. It's the SAF that's the bad guy now. They flipped. | | |
| ▲ | throwaway27448 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | How did you manage to make a civil war in sudan about a european conflict? Neither plays much role at all compared to the gulf states and eritrea/ethiopia. |
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| ▲ | boxed 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
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| ▲ | thaumasiotes 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Audience interest? Same thing that makes any other videos profitable. |
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| ▲ | throwaway27448 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Where did influencers come from? They didn't perpetrate the indiscriminate slaughter of an entire people. They certainly didn't cause this war. And when has reporting on a genocide ever brought about its conclusion? maybe you could argue this about the bosnian genocide....? |
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| ▲ | boxed 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | sosomoxie 18 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Actually the IDF did that. | |
| ▲ | netsharc 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | On the flip side you've either been propagandized to find the slaughter of civilians acceptable ("they were warned!", "they sympathize anyway", etc, etc) or you're doing the propagandizing yourself. Maybe towards yourself, so that you can continue to believe that your defense of said genocide is the right thing. | |
| ▲ | atwrk 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I mean the share of civilians killed in the war (by Israel) is over 80 percent of the total casualties. That is worse than the rate in WW2. In Ukraine it's under 5%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war | | |
| ▲ | hollerith 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | I deplore current Israeli policies, but Ukraine isn't disguising its war fighters as civilians like Hamas is, which is an important qualifier to your numbers. | | |
| ▲ | atwrk 18 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | But Russia is doing exactly that systematically for years now, disguising as civilians. I'm also pretty sure Hamas isn't disguising themselves as children, who make up the largest share of the civilian victims. | | |
| ▲ | boxed 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > I'm also pretty sure Hamas isn't disguising themselves as children, who make up the largest share of the civilian victims. Even the very slanted wikipedia article doesn't claim such a crazy thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war They do claim everyone under the age of 18 to be a "child", which I know is the UN definition, but is pretty absurd in this situation with Hamas fighters of 15, 16, and 17 years of age being very common. | |
| ▲ | hollerith 17 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Someone said that Russia has conducted its invasion in a way as to keep civilian casualties to only 5% of Ukrainian casualties. In evaluating that number, it is relevant that Russia's task is made easier by Ukraine's adherence to the widely accepted principle that a war fighter should wear the uniform of the side he is fighting for. In contrast, for the purposes of this thread, it is irrelevant that "Russia is doing exactly that systematically for years now, disguising as civilians" (to quote you). This isn't a contest to see how many negative things we can say about the Russians or the Israelis. Or at least that is not a coversation I would be interested in. I think Israel's actions since Oct 2023 have been deplorable and disgusting. But that doesn't mean I am interested in no nuance at all in discussing how deplorable and disgusting. |
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| ▲ | throwaway27448 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I don't see how that's relevant, nor why such a distinction matters in such an asymmetric conflict where international law clearly allows for violent resistance to occupation. | |
| ▲ | sosomoxie 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | School children aren’t “disguised Hamas”. |
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| ▲ | ahhhhnoooo 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Right, it's not constrained to Gaza. The genocide against Palestinian people is occurring across the nation of Israel. | | |
| ▲ | boxed 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | Palestinian muslim arabs are 20% of Israels population. Remind me how many percent of Palestine, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, are Jewish? This is the worst genocide ever. They even have representation in Knesset. They serve in the IDF. | | |
| ▲ | ahhhhnoooo 17 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I can tell you are unable to approach this topic rationally. No one made the claim this is the worse genocide ever. It does not need to rise to that bar to be a genocide. Your hyperbole is not a good faith effort to discuss the topic. And the whataboutism is a deflection. Genocide is bad everywhere it's occurring. Right now it's occurring in many places, one of which is within Israel/Palestine. If you believe it's also happening elsewhere, we should condemn those as well, not absolve the actions of Netanyahu. | | |
| ▲ | boxed an hour ago | parent [-] | | > Your hyperbole is not a good faith effort to discuss the topic I mean.. I think the same about your continued use of the word "genocide" in this war. Israel is fighting a war with human shields being explicitly used basically 100% of the time. Hamas fires missiles from inside refugee camps, and shooting AKs from behind children. Hamas is committing a war crime almost every time they attack at all. They built a tunnel system that could house their entire civilian population, but if a civilian tried to take shelter Hamas shoots them. Civilian casualties was always the goal for Hamas, because the west is predictably fooled by it. |
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| ▲ | newspaper1 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Palestinians,Lebanese and Iranians (of all religions) represent 100% of the victims of Israel’s genocide. |
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| ▲ | pmontra 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It does not apply. Many vocal Westerners don't find an enemy of their enemy (the USA way to capitalism or to imperialism or pick your -ism) in Sudan so there are no votes to gain, careers to foster, people to gather in protests. "The enemy of my enemy is not my friend but at least is the enemy of my enemy" effect is totally lacking. Who do you protest against? Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iran? As a public figure said in my country about the protests for Gaza, "we protest against our government." |
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| ▲ | newspaper1 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Israel’s genocide has nothing to do with “influencers” and everything to do with stealing land. The “profit” is Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon and the whole of Palestine post-Balfour Agreement. Some blue check on Twitter does not register. |
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| ▲ | thrance 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| What are you even talking about. There was and still is much more money to be made on the pro-Israel side. Which media magnates have ever sided with Palestinians again? Virtually all the propaganda money goes to defending the actions of Israel in the Middle East. And the thing that motivated so much grassroot support for Palestinians was the West's total material and moral support to the Zionist project, while the genocide in Sudan is much more indirectly related to the West. |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 17 hours ago | parent [-] | | > There was and still is much more money to be made on the pro-Israel side Has anyone actually measured this? If I were to create two sock-puppet AI-content accounts and let them loose on social media, I'd guess I'd be monetising at a multiple with the pro-Palestinian one. It's just the more-mainstream position in today's media environment across the aisle. | | |
| ▲ | thrance 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | I really don't want to dive in this rabbithole, but Israel and its allies are very present online and spend obscene amounts of money to buy influencers, politicians and media. The video of Netanyahou repeating "TikTok, TikTok, TikTok" to sponsored influencers in a seminar comes to mind. And now Ellison, a notorious Zionist, straight up bought the platform to align it with his ideas. There is nothing even remotely comparable happening on the other side. Based on platform revenue though, certainly pro-Palestinian content must be generating more organic clicks and views, seeing how this conflict has become a 90-10 issue among liberals. But that's not where the lion share of profits are made. Certainly, if I was a morally bankrupt influencer/politician/journalist, I know which side I'd pick to maximize my income. |
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| ▲ | 4gotunameagain 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | MisterTea 18 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This reads like a bad parody of the Soviet "west = bad" trope. Big wide brush strokes, painting ALL Europeans as somehow enabling this when it was only a few players and likely no real European peoples made decisions beyond a few powerful people. Buffoonish thinking. | | |
| ▲ | 4gotunameagain 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | Oh I am European, and I (or my country) certainly had zero involvement in the events that are playing out now. But they are not critical of them, not aloud at least. As much as I love Europe, we are complicit to this genocide, and we are hypocrites. We laud European values, but only their theory. |
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| ▲ | boxed 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In the Spanish colonies they speak Spanish. In the Portuguese colonies they speak Portuguese. In the __BLANK__ colonies they speak Hewbrew. Fill in the blank. | | |
| ▲ | 4gotunameagain 17 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Hew brew, as you spell it, is a resurrected language. It was extinct. It was resurrected solely as a tool for jewish nationalism. | | |
| ▲ | boxed 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | And from which mother nation state was Israel a colony of? |
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| ▲ | newspaper1 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Ashkenazi, and only because they made a dedicated effort to switch from their native Yiddish to build the colonization narrative. | | |
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| ▲ | throwhhjs 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | DFHippie 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | After a few hundred years historical injustices move down the priority list. France isn't seeking reparations from Italy for the conquest of Gaul, for example. | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 17 hours ago | parent [-] | | > After a few hundred years historical injustices move down the priority list I'm actually curious for you to expand on this. It's broadly, I think, my view. And it's been a reason I've come to disregard pretty much all historical claims to land in the Middle East, focussing on the quality of life of the people alive today where they are over where they or their ancestors were at some arbitrary point in the past. But that largely erupts from me drawing my line between the living and the dead. (International lawyers would draw it at the end of WWII.) How do you draw yours? |
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| ▲ | two_cents 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | unpopularopp 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | hollywood_court 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Our (the US) current leadership is beholden to Israel. |
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