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himata4113 3 hours ago

I mean if you really think about it china already has or is on the verge of:

- energy independence

- ASML level microchip production

- the SOTA of AI

- citizens that accept surveilence and lack of privacy

- strong local manufacturing

- eastern world support

- yuan recognized as a stable world currency

But they do suffer from issues as well:

- Aging population

- Autocracy (or well, one party system)

- Brain drain (better funding and security in the US and Europe, US has managed to alienate a lot of very promising figures so it's closer to just Europe, but capital markets in Europe are still hit and miss)

It's completely understandable why US is freaking out, china's future still looks a lot more promising than the one US find themselves in.

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giwook 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> citizens that accept surveilence and lack of privacy

It's certainly not to China's extent, but is America really that opposed to surveillance and lack of privacy?

Yes, we tend to raise a huge stink when evidence of such comes to the surface.

But actions speak louder than words, and through our actions we already largely accept surveillance and a lack of privacy.

Everyday consumer apps are some of the worst offenders. Our social media apps listen to us, Amazon Ring doorbells are allegedly accessed by ICE (though Amazon denies it), Flock cameras abound (not to mention the fact they're poorly secured so who knows who else is watching other than the municipalities Flock contracts with), companies own much of our data and sell them to myriad unknown sources on a whim. There are too many examples to list.

No, it's not as severe as China. But we're certainly not trending in the right direction.

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himata4113 2 hours ago | parent [-]

The american government pretends to care, but the moment you look deeper (snowden leaks), it's clear that they don't. But the fact still stands, the population is mostly against surveilance while chinese just keep their head down.

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giwook an hour ago | parent [-]

They have to keep their head down for fear it will get cut off (figuratively speaking, mostly). I doubt the majority of Chinese civilians are happy to be in a repressed state such as the one they're in.

And unfortunately it's pretty clear the current administration is working hard to enact a similar chilling effect on free speech. It's hard to see how we avoid becoming a similarly surveilled and repressed state if there were a third term.

	▲	himata4113 43 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		I mean I didn't say it was a good thing. It's a benefit (to the government) that it is already widespread and accepted as part of life.

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est 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> citizens that accept surveilence and lack of privacy

citizens had no choice.

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fmbb 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Neither do US and European citizens. We seem to be accepting the same amount of surveillance and lack of privacy still.

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shaneos 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Citizens always have a choice. The cost can be terrible, but there’s always a choice

	▲	raw_anon_1111 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		What is that “choice”? Surely you aren’t like those yokels in the south that think a “militia” running in the woods can take on the the US military or even a decent SWAT force

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Johanx64 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You're presuming that if they had a choice, they wouldn't accept it.

The reality is that chinese goverment is - overall - delivering results. People will accept things that bring good outcomes.

There's also upsides from the surveilence and the way things are done in China which makes it way more resilient from outside influence and disruptive bad actors.

Now I don't want the same things in my country, but it suits China to some extent.

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pjc50 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

China still has capital controls, so the RMB cannot be a world currency when you can't freely move it in and out of China.

	▲	himata4113 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		doesn't change the fact that their next 'plan' will likely include expanding yuan influnce across the world.

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duskdozer 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

How much more surveillance and lack of privacy is there than the US? The US also has

- surveilled cities and less dense places through doorbell cams - surveilled digital communications - social credit scores (try getting a bank account if you've opted out of things like lexisnexis etc)