| ▲ | Building a TB-303 from Scratch(loopmaster.xyz) |
| 144 points by stagas 4 days ago | 49 comments |
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| ▲ | squigg 17 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| TB-303 owner here. If my TB-303 sounded this bad I'd set fire to it ;-) Really this is just an implementation of a basic oscillator, filter and envelope. No harm in that all and it's more than I could manage - it's fun and nice, but it's nothing like a 303. "Building an acid synth" would be fairer. The accent and glide are core components of the sound, as is the really quite unique sequencer control - from the strange bendy growls to the classic acid bark the accent brings out. Would have been nice to see a deeper dive into why that is and why it's different from implementing a normal portamento-style glide as many other synths do, like the SH-101 - which cannot sound that close to a 303 due to that glide. Well it's also got a different oscillator and filter, with no accent either, but I don't want that to ruin the story ;-) |
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| ▲ | c-c-c-c-c 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'd love to see a deep dive into the 303 CPU and their replicas like https://www.sonic-potions.com/re303 and https://socialentropy.com/pages/product_qs303 sonic potions has an analysis of the cpu timings here https://sonic-potions.com/Documentation/Analysis_of_the_D650... Theres also some nice articles about the diode ladder filter in the 303, similar to the one in the vcs3 https://www.timstinchcombe.co.uk/index.php?pge=diode2 |
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| ▲ | Archit3ch 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Sounds like a softsynth. Without having the source to the WASM diodeLadder(), the following is just a guess: they implemented it exactly like every other "Diode Ladder" on GitHub, rather than a true SPICE simulation. Some evidence for that: the CPU usage would explode. |
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| ▲ | djmips 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| How much are you building 'from Scratch' when your language has primitives like diodeLadder(). :) I'm just joshing - it's very cool! |
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| ▲ | emursebrian an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The UI for loopmaster looks really good. The color scheme is really pleasing to look at and it is easy to jump right in and start editing stuff. I've owned a bunch of different synthesizers and used a bunch of DAWs over the years and it was clear to me where I needed to make my edits to affect the signal chain. We do real-time client-side audio processing in Emurse, and there were definitely a bunch of challenges to overcome there, so it would be interesting to hear more about what went into building the tool. |
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| ▲ | stagas 22 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Thank you! Challenging would be an understatement. Had to create an editor from scratch in canvas to support the inline visuals, then a DSL that generates the code for each permutation of audio and scalar parameters, then the language itself which is Turing complete and controls the whole thing in a VM, choosing the optimal permutation for each case, and all the edits/recompilation be done in few ms to not distrupt the experience, all across a thread (the WebAudio AudioWorklet). The audio engine is in WebAssembly as it was the only way to get the performance needed. You can check out the code[0], the project is open-source! [0]: https://github.com/loopmaster-xyz |
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| ▲ | juleiie 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Once you hear analog perfect imperfection, it is hard to go back to emulators. No words can describe the feeling of original Yamaha cs-80. It is very unfortunate as there is no true alternative to a 80kg, age issues ridden, ultra expensive antique device. |
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| ▲ | bxguff 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | my high school had a cs-70 and it poisoned me for life. that being said, theres a pretty big leap in terms of accessibility vs a browser based synth and you dont need $10,000 to play it so that's nice | |
| ▲ | aa-jv 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Well, Deckards Dream comes pretty close to attaining a modern analog manifestation of the CS80 ideal: https://black-corporation.com/shop/ And, well, its a lot more feasible to gig with, by comparison. | | |
| ▲ | juleiie an hour ago | parent [-] | | It sounds different but it is great in its own right and priced adequately to how amazing it sounds. Maybe 'alternative' is a wrong word. I think I meant 1:1 replica. Also it doesn't come with ring modulator nor ribbon. I think black corp synthesizers are inspired by the original vintage devices and are great on their own but there are justified reasons to also avoid them mostly because of common issues that arise when you buy a niche product from a tiny company thousands of kilometers away. |
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| ▲ | keyle 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The TB-303 of reference to me is still Jeskola TB-303 :) Back in my day of the demoscene and Buzz... demo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2kl-CW9snU |
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| ▲ | lagniappe 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Jeskola Buzz has a pretty interesting back story: >The development of the core program, buzz.exe, was halted on October 5, 2000, when the developer lost the source code to the program. It was announced in June 2008 that development would begin again, eventually regaining much of the functionality. | | |
| ▲ | djmips 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Sounds like a real bad day. | | |
| ▲ | skrebbel 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yeah it was pretty spectacular. The author was a bit paranoid, had never shared his sources with anyone or backed them up anywhere or version controlled them to a remote SVN server or anything like that. And then his hard drive failed and Buzz development was over. IIRC there even was a community-organized crowdfunding campaign to fund some fancy data recovery company to try and revive the hard drive so he could get the sources back (not sure if this ever turned out happening). |
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| ▲ | creativeembassy 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | This brings back memories. Buzz is how I got my start. And I've been producing electronic music as a hobbyist ever since. |
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| ▲ | rollulus 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think “simulate” would’ve been a more accurate word than “build”. |
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| ▲ | tobr 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I also expected hardware to be involved. But in the context of a list of tutorials on how to use this live coding tool the title makes sense though. | |
| ▲ | ErroneousBosh an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | They miss out how not-square the "square wave" is for a start. Its pulsewidth varies wildly across the compass. | | |
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| ▲ | torusle 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The fun thing was the Roland Sync. You could sync up all the TB-303, TB-909 and all the others with a 5-pole DIN cable. The sync was badly implemented. It lagged, it had latency. However! As soon as you cabled all together their imperfections added up and they started to groove like nothing that has been heard before. |
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| ▲ | squigg 20 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Owner of all (ALL!!) the classic Roland x0x boxes here, which are connected together using DIN Sync - the sync was not badly implemented at all - they sync together perfectly. The sequencers in each of the machines have a bit of nuance, which is where that famous groove comes from! You might be confusing this with the sometimes hilarious midi timing of the 909 and 707. | |
| ▲ | Applejinx 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | This I don't understand. DINsync is raw trigger outputs/inputs like you'd have in a modular synth, in contrast to MIDI that has to send serial messages over a 1k data bus. Perhaps this take has something to do with calling a five-pin DIN plug '5-pole'? Something's wrong and backwards here. Again, I guess this is where we are now? I remember reality, but here we are. | | |
| ▲ | windowliker an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | DIN sync is not trigger based, it's a full clock protocol invented by Roland that has various different states. The fact is that not all DIN sync capable machines implement it the correct way, leading to slight differences in synchronisation, even between devices made by Roland. | |
| ▲ | svantana 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | No, this is different from pure CV. Each device has its own (digital) sequencer that can synchronize with others using pulse trains over DIN cable. Lots of places where latency and instability can occur! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_sync |
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| ▲ | tnn1t1s 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I built one for 303 Day! https://tnn1t1s.github.io/day-303/303.html ... comparing notes. |
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| ▲ | prmoustache 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I don't know what this website is made off but not being able to use pgup/pgdown to move around is super annoying. |
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| ▲ | stagas 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | What's your OS/browser? On Chrome/Linux it works fine. If you're focused on an editor it can capture the page keys so you have to click outside first. |
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| ▲ | bowsamic 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It’s a nice demonstration of this software but it really sounds very little like a 303 |
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| ▲ | stagas 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Try tweaking the accent multiplier to .1 from .5 - you can get there but it requires a lot of value tweaking. There's no singular TB-303 sound, but the components are there. |
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| ▲ | kennyloginz 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is cool, but I would personally find an og iMac and install rebirth. |
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| ▲ | 1313ed01 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The Windows version (a legal, non-cracked, copy, even) runs well in QEMU. Pretty sure I managed to get it working in WINE as well at some point, but I prefer to have software running in QEMU as that tend to be much more install-and-forget rather than having to fiddle with settings or/and reinstall stuff every time there is an upgrade or I move to new hardware. | |
| ▲ | ErroneousBosh an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | OG iMac for the retro coolth of the project, or for ease of installation? Because the Windows version works perfectly under Wine. |
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| ▲ | bandrami 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It warms my heart to see the 303 getting a renaissance |
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| ▲ | hnlmorg 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I don’t recall it ever falling out of fashion. It’s easily the most used and copied sound. Like the Amen Break of synths. | |
| ▲ | hdb2 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I love seeing so many brilliant creatives throwing their talents at the 303 - hardware hackers, software writers, etc. | |
| ▲ | poisonarena 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | its been getting a renaissance since 2006 i think | | |
| ▲ | hnlmorg an hour ago | parent [-] | | I have a huge stack of records that prove it was used heavily throughout the 00s. And the 90s too |
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| ▲ | drcongo 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| 303 heads won't be fooled for a second, but it sounds quite cool regardless. edit: This is, without a doubt, the best soft-synth emulation I know of these days and it's a hell of a lot of fun: https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/pure-acid/id1481283602 |
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| ▲ | Applejinx 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Confirmed. I wondered if it was a hardware hacker, as I've built a couple x0xb0xes from kits, but it was not. I guess this is where we are? I mean, 'we' that doesn't include me, 'cos I have x0xes and can do stuff with them. As a reference for what 303s are actually like, early Plastikman acid/minimal tracks often have really intense 303 elements. The filter's characteristic and can have enormous resonance and sonority, but the ability to combine that with accents and produce wild dynamic effects is something you don't find in other synths. | | |
| ▲ | drcongo 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I've got 3 hardware versions in my studio - ranked from best to worst for emulation: a T-8, a TD-3, and a TB-3. The TB-3 is rubbish, the T-8 is excellent, but I still most often reach for Pure Acid - it seems to have that variability in the filter that a real 303 has. | | |
| ▲ | Applejinx 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yeah, the Aira is clearly a softsynth. What makes a 303 distinct (and this is to some extent mirrored by a x0x) is the brutal simplicity of the circuit. These things are very very primitive and there are sonic qualities gained by the lack of complication. Here's a video of parallel 303 and x0x, both of which are from an era where circuitry was through-hole components on a larger scale than we do currently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkJk_BpqHzQ There's also a modern version called x0xheart which is more SMD components, and it has yet another sound: sort of more surgical and pristine than the older through-hole builds, but still distinctly NOT a softsynth. This is a x0xheart: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgBa2d7gsPo Hardware hackers who like acid music are heartily encouraged to explore this sort of thing! If nothing else, the modding scene around 303s is great fun :) |
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| ▲ | cocodill 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| well by building 303, I would really expect building, something this guy do[1], not just simply using a filter in some shitty web app. [1]https://www.youtube.com/@MoritzKlein0/ |
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| ▲ | Subdivide8452 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | While I agree that I'd like to know the more esoteric concepts of the 303, you could have worded it differently. | |
| ▲ | efdee 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The guy built the "shitty web app" (that's actually pretty cool, not shitty) from scratch. | |
| ▲ | sambapa 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Shitty? Why so harsh? That web app IMO is great, like supercollider running in a browser. At least it isn't some ai slop |
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