It is ridiculously more expensive and complicated under the hood, technically, but to the user, the sheer convenience of being able to text the computer "hey, when I get an email like X, inform Y and do Z" and that's it, you're done, is unmatched.

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latexr 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What about the convenience of having your whole inbox deleted?

https://www.pcmag.com/news/meta-security-researchers-opencla...

Maybe OpenClaw was just practicing a really aggressive form of Inbox Zero.

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BeetleB 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

So ... don't give it write access to your email?

As I said elsewhere, complaining about this is like complaining that rm can let you delete your hard drive.

It's a tool. Learn how to use it.

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Volundr 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Ignoring that you've just cut off a whole vector of usefulness, how do I keep it from exfilling my inbox to the Internet in response to a malicious email? Or using its access to take control of my online accounts?

Honest question, this kind of stuff is what keeps me from using it.

	▲	BeetleB 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Don't give it access to your email then. I haven't. Plenty of other uses for it!

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Kriev 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Bad take.

You can rm -rf your entire hard drive, but you can't blame rm for it, it's you who did it, maybe because you don't know, or a mistake, doesn't matter.

When you ask the clanker to delete x number of files in a directory, it can reason itself that is easier to just get rid of the directory.

Can't expect deterministic outcomes out of a statistical model.

At it's current state its a wildcard, sure you can build guard rails, reduce permissions, but it's still a wildcard.

Let's not kid ourselves saying is just a skill issue.

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BeetleB 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> When you ask the clanker to delete x number of files in a directory, it can reason itself that is easier to just get rid of the directory.

Oh sure, so don't give it write access to anything important. And make backups.

Mine is on a VM. It doesn't have access to my host's files. The worst it will do is delete the files on the VM. No great loss.

Yes, I do get it to modify things on my host, but only via a REST API I've set up on my host, and I whitelist the things it can do (no generic delete, for example). I even let it send emails. But only to me. It can't send an email to anyone else.

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latexr an hour ago | parent [-]

> So ... don't give it write access to your email?

> (…)

> Oh sure, so don't give it write access to anything important. And make backups.

If this conversation continues much longer, we’ll end up with “don’t use it at all”.

If I can’t trust a piece of software with anything important, why am I wasting my time fiddling with it? Might as well go play a video game or go do literally anything else entertaining.

	▲	BeetleB an hour ago \| parent [-]
		> If I can’t trust a piece of software with anything important Not what I said. As I've repeatedly said in this thread: Plenty of use cases where you don't give it access to email and write access to files. The comment you're replying to has an example of that. > Might as well go play a video game or go do literally anything else entertaining. True of most hobbies, right? I knew people who 20 years ago used to spend time in their garage building solar powered vehicles. But if I can't trust it to be reliable and safe on the road, I might as well go play a video game. Also: Is anyone telling you to use it?

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skeledrew 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Worth the risk.

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miroljub 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

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Antipode 3 hours ago | parent [-]

OpenClaw is rightly being blamed for a mistake it made. Any argument regarding her aptitude would be irrelevant as it would in no way absolve OpenClaw.

	▲	miroljub 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		[flagged]

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jcgl 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sure, that’s an interface that’s better for many users and use-cases.

However, it seems better if you could, as much as is possible, move the AI stuff from runtime to “compile time.”

Instead of having the AI do everything all the time, have AI configure your Zapier (or whatever) on your behalf. That way you can (ideally) get the best of both worlds: the reliability and predictability of classical software, combined with the fuzzy interface of LLMs.

	▲	BeetleB 2 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		> Instead of having the AI do everything all the time, have AI configure your Zapier (or whatever) on your behalf. That is what many use OpenClaw for! The AI assistant will happily recommend existing services and help you (or itself, if you let it), set it up. (In theory. In practice, it often does a poor job). The appeal of OpenClaw is I don't need to go research all these possible solutions for different problems. I just tell it my problem and it figures it out. Yesterday I told it to monitor a page which lists classes offered, and have it ping me if any class with a begin date in March/April is listed. This is easily scriptable by me, but I don't want to spend time writing that script. And modifying it for each site I want to be notified for. I merely spoke (voice, not text) to the agent and it will check each day. (Again, it's not that reliable. I'm under no illusion it will inform me - but this is the appeal).
	▲	skeledrew 2 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		That's still too much work. Someone would have to make like an OpenClaw wizard that protectively offers to set all that stuff up. So the potential OpenClaw user can then, on running for the first time, be guided through the setup of whatever they'd like to get connected. And "setup" here means a short description of X and a "Connect? (y/n)" prompt. Anything more and you start losing people.
	▲	jbellis 3 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		yes. in a similar vein, we're seeing that get standardized in coding agents as "don't have the agent use tools directly, have the agent write code to call the tools"

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beepbooptheory 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sometimes I reflect on all the metaphorical forests that have burned because a certain person at the right time only knew so much about how to use Excel, or the inbox rules of their MUA, or being totally unaware of the incredible power of macros of all sorts.

Like if you could just sit someone down for 30 minutes and show a few "power user" things, you will have truly taught her to fish for a lifetime. But it can go so unaddressed, and people's careers are built on these small ignorances.

I've cancelled everything at this point and just call Emacs my "special agential assistant," it makes me still sound in-the-know, and most of the time no one knows the difference!

"Convenience" in this context is laziness; "productivity" and "efficiency" is for management and bosses. We don't need to be our own bosses, I want to be free from such things as an individual. I want to be capable, be maybe almost "cool." Its sad to see a whole generation turn into such product dorks!

"Oh please read my email for me Mr. AI!"