| ▲ | shubhamjain 4 hours ago |
| Where is this figure coming from? According to Meta's press release, the effective tax rate is 30% [1]. > The full year 2025 provision for income taxes includes the effects of the implementation of the One Big Beautiful Bill Act during the third quarter of 2025. Absent the valuation allowance charge as of the enactment date, our full year 2025 effective tax rate would have decreased by 17 percentage points to 13%, compared to the reported effective tax rate of 30%. [1]: https://investor.atmeta.com/investor-news/press-release-deta... |
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| ▲ | TYPE_FASTER an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| The effective federal tax rate, and the amount of federal tax Meta paid as a percentage of income, are two different things. More details here: https://itep.org/meta-tax-breaks-trump-mark-zuckerberg/ The 10-K filed by Meta is linked to in that article, and can be found here: https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1326801/0001... If you dig into the details in the Income Tax Disclosure block, Meta paid $2.8B in Federal income taxes for the year ended December 31, 2025. Meta deferred a large chunk of Federal income taxes. So, while the effective Federal income tax rate for 2025 was about 30%, largely due to a 3rd quarter charge of $14B against deferred taxes (Meta's effective tax rate for 2023 was 17.6% and for 2024 it was 11.8%), they paid 3.5% of their income as Federal income tax. |
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| ▲ | gruez 32 minutes ago | parent [-] | | >Meta deferred a large chunk of Federal income taxes. How are can we reasonably expect them to be deferred for? Are we talking on the order of years, or decades? | | |
| ▲ | dahinds 15 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Mostly never -- most of the deferral was an accounting adjustment for the value of future tax credits that they could no longer take advantage of, so there is no actual tax liability here that will eventually be paid. |
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| ▲ | ovi256 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I bet the two sources won't agree on what values go into the denominator and / or numerator of their effective tax rate calculations. It can be as simple as the 3.5% being a calculated rate on revenue rather than profit |
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| ▲ | loeg 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You can't just throw revenue in the denominator, though. Business tax is assessed on income. If you're going to make a claim about tax rate using an unconventional metric, you need to be explicit about what you've done; Reich isn't. | | |
| ▲ | gojomo 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If you're Robert Reich, you can! You can make up anything, and someone will submit it to HN to waste everyone's time! | | |
| ▲ | Refreeze5224 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah, screw Robert Reich! Always looking out for the workers who make up the majority of this country. Why won't he look out for the poor multi-national corporations, who have no one to advocate for them or their tax rates? | | |
| ▲ | loeg 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Hey, he can advocate for whatever causes he likes. I just think honesty makes a more compelling argument than lies. | |
| ▲ | thunky 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Always looking out for the workers How is spreading misinformation looking out for the workers? |
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| ▲ | MichaelZuo 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I thought there were systems designed to effectively negate users that submit too many misleading posts. | | |
| ▲ | latexr 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Your parent post isn’t suggesting it’s always the same user submitting, just that users submit a lot of posts from this person. Can’t say I agree, though. I don’t recall ever having seen one of his posts on HN, and a cursory search suggests they’re not even upvoted that much. Highest I found was under 30 points. But my methodology is flawed, as I basically searched for the name. |
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| ▲ | TrainedMonkey 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Sure, and there are a ton of ways to shifting income around. For example selling a subsidiary in lower tax jurisdiction patents and then paying for their usage. Another example is Hollywood accounting where productions pay exorbitant rates for equipment and catering to affiliated companies. This inflates the costs so the movies end up unprofitable despite smashing box office. | |
| ▲ | quietbritishjim 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Business tax is assessed on income. Income (in a business) is another word for revenue. I think you meant: business tax is assessed on profit. | | | |
| ▲ | shevis 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Income != profit. Income is revenue. It sure would be nice if businesses were taxed on income, given that’s how people are taxed and all. Aren’t corporations supposedly people now thanks to citizens united? | | |
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| ▲ | terminalshort 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There is no real concept of sources legitimately disagreeing here. There is tax law, which Meta uses to calculate its tax liability, and then there are lies. | |
| ▲ | kccqzy 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Even if you mistakenly calculate the rate on revenue, you will get 25474/200966=13%. |
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| ▲ | abeppu 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think it's from this: https://itep.org/meta-tax-breaks-trump-mark-zuckerberg/ |
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| ▲ | shubhamjain 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The post seems to be comparing quarterly figures for tax with annual profit. The doc they cite clearly $25B as provision for income tax. | | |
| ▲ | TYPE_FASTER an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | While they provisioned $25B, the 10-K Meta filed states they paid $2.8B in Federal income taxes for the full year 2025. The amount they provisioned is not limited to Federal income taxes, it also includes state and foreign income taxes. | |
| ▲ | abeppu 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I am not an accountant or finance professional but the table they refer to has the 2.8B under "current" and the 25B figure under "total".
Is it just that of their 2025 taxes, they paid 2.8B during that calendar year and it's only Feb and the remaining was not yet actually paid out at the time that filing was prepared? |
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| ▲ | datsci_est_2015 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Interesting. Wouldn’t surprise me if there are different ways to report the same numbers to make the situation seem more or less favorable. Statisticians and accountants are both professional liars (speaking as a statistician married to an accountant). | | |
| ▲ | loeg 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Wouldn’t surprise me if there are different ways to report the same numbers to make the situation seem more or less favorable. Yeah -- accurately, and inaccurately. | | |
| ▲ | datsci_est_2015 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Are you implying that there are four quadrants: - Accurate / favorable
- Inaccurate / favorable
- Accurate / unfavorable
- Inaccurate / unfavorable
Or are you implying that Meta spoke the God’s honest truth out of a sense of societal duty and honor. | | |
| ▲ | loeg an hour ago | parent [-] | | In this instance, only two combinations -- accurate and favorable vs inaccurate and unfavorable. Meta and Meta's accountants spoke the truth in their audited financial statements. I cannot speak to the motivation in their hearts, but I am aware that there are significant financial and criminal consequences to publishing incorrect financial statements. |
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| ▲ | philipallstar 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Can the post be community noted? |
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| ▲ | DoctorOetker 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If entity A declares such and such incomes and expenses, it could be truthful or not. If entity A is truthfully declaring such and such incomes and expenses, why would it reference it's own declaration as the "reported effective tax rate of 30%". On the other hand if A is not truthfully declaring such and such incomes and expenses, and a legal team is very careful in maintaining an exact wording towards the government, then any tax-related comments by A which are not made by the legal team would either be self-censored or censored by the legal team to never reference "the effective tax rate" but rather a "reported" one, it basically reads like a superscript referring the reader to some other carefully worded fine print in other documents. What prevented the more natural language of "[...] compared to the effective tax rate of 30%." ? Under what circumstances would you add such a word? EDIT: this is not to say that this word constitutes an effective admission of lying, but rather that they don't actually want to talk about it, while pretending to be openly talking about it. EDIT2: whenever companies get away with substantially lower tax rates, employee shortages in the rest of the economy can be seen as low-effective-taxed companies "stealing" employees from the rest of the economy, perhaps with or without approval from the government. If the government approves it is effectively a state-sponsored enterprise, and if it doesn't it would probably like to know about it since productivity of the economy could be improved by reassigning those employees into companies that allow themselves to be properly taxed (whatever that means!) |
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| ▲ | SpicyLemonZest 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | In the US, public companies generally must report their financial results according to generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP). They can also report other numbers, and that's what they're doing in footnote (1); they think one particular adjustment GAAP requires them to make might be misleading, and they helpfully disclose that they would have calculated 13% if not for that adjustment. But they are not allowed to say that the GAAP number is wrong or untruthful, nor to put the non-GAAP number in the topline and the GAAP adjustment in the footnote. |
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| ▲ | datsci_est_2015 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yeah this is a weird low quality submission to HN (no offense OP). Microblogging has questionable value for anything beyond “hot takes” and “breaking news” (and keeping people angry and misinformed enough to vote). |
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| ▲ | kadabra9 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'm shocked, absolutely shocked that a Bluesky post would be deliberately misleading to push a narrative that we need more taxes. |
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| ▲ | stetrain 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't know why that's specific to one social media network. I see deliberately misleading posts on all of them. | | |
| ▲ | akramachamarei 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Sure, but being misleading to push for more taxes is more characteristic of Bluesky than many others. |
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| ▲ | randomtoast 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That's why I often ask for "Source?" — because sometimes people seem to make up numbers. However, whenever I do this, I receive a large number of downvotes. Maybe it's not common on HN to back up claims with sources. |
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| ▲ | jannyfer 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There is another possibility. “Source?” is a low effort comment, but GP’s is not. | | |
| ▲ | randomtoast 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective. Your comment raises an interesting point, and I would genuinely like to understand it more thoroughly. Would you mind clarifying what source or reference you are relying on for that statement? I am asking in the spirit of constructive dialogue, not to challenge you, but to better understand the foundation of your view. If there is a specific study, report, dataset, or publication that informed your conclusion, I would be grateful if you could point me toward it. Having access to the underlying source would help ensure that the discussion remains grounded in verifiable information and would allow others, including myself, to review the context and methodology behind the claim. That, in turn, would make the exchange more substantive and productive. Thank you in advance for any clarification you can provide. | | |
| ▲ | jonas21 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This is also a low effort comment, despite the word count. In contrast, shubhamjain found Meta's earnings release for the specified time period, quoted numbers that appear to contradict the claim, and provided a link to the release. This adds to the conversation, while a comment that says "Source?" or a few paragraphs that can be reduced to "Source?" do not. | |
| ▲ | rohin15 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What benefit do you gain by having an llm write comments on HN? I don't get it. | |
| ▲ | koakuma-chan 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Too brief, minus 10 marks. |
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| ▲ | Taek 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's more likely your attitude rather than your quest for verification that gets you downvotes. | | |
| ▲ | randomtoast 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | My intentions are sincere, maybe it is the wording. | | |
| ▲ | brynnbee 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I would imagine it's more you're being skeptical of something that is unpopular to be skeptical about. It's like someone saying climate change is impacting our planet, and then asking "source?" in response. | | |
| ▲ | randomtoast 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | No, that's not correct. I ask "Source?" when someone makes a claim that goes against popular belief, such as: "climate change is not impacting our planet." I do think "Source?" is generally considered a low-effort response, so it's the wording I guess, not the context. | |
| ▲ | kolbe 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Except he was skeptical about Meta's effective tax rate being 3%. Why are you making up scenarios that aren't real to justify hurting him? |
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| ▲ | terminalshort 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Taxes are a subject of frequent liberal conspiracy theories. You will see all sorts of blatantly false claims like this because left wing misinformation spreaders like Robert Reich make up their own tax calculations that have no relation whatsoever to actual tax law. |
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| ▲ | mrgoldenbrown 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | No need to limit this to "liberal" conspiracy theories. Trump and his admin's statements on how tariffs and other taxes work and who pays them have been full of blatantly false claims. | | |
| ▲ | akramachamarei 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | "X does A" does not mean "only X does A." | | |
| ▲ | datsci_est_2015 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | It’s a fair retort here, though, where the grandparent comment was clearly trying to grandstand in opposition to his perceived enemy tribe, mostly unprovoked. Edit: in other words, it’s a fair interpretation of the comment to be saying “We wouldn’t have to deal with all this misinformation about taxes if there wasn’t some giant liberal conspiracy”, given that they weren’t replying to any specific part of the parent post. |
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