| ▲ | iberator 4 hours ago |
| My stance is Mossad reading: - Likud is an evil political party - Natanyahu is a wanted war criminal - IDF committed many atrocities - Hamas was insane to think that Bibi would NOT BOMB the Gaza in retaliation. - Hamas was the first to cast the stone. - Israel ALWAYS gonna retaliate with non proportional force when it comes to security of its citizens. |
|
| ▲ | throw310822 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > Hamas was the first to cast the stone. Palestine is a country under a brutal military occupation and progressive illegal colonisation that has been going on for 80 years. Before October 7, Israel had already killed many, many more civilians in Gaza than Hamas did in Israel with that attack. |
| |
| ▲ | pojzon an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | When you know what father of Israel did during WW2 to fund the current Israel. Uhg, too bad its not taught in school coz history is written by winners and you have to search for it yourself. Yes Israel commits an ongoing genocide. And I look at this only by lens of history. | |
| ▲ | weirdmantis69 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's not a country | | |
|
|
| ▲ | guerrilla 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Hamas was insane to think that Bibi would NOT BOMB the Gaza in retaliation. My theory is that they knew this would happen and they did it because they knew it would garner support (which it did) and they also knew they had nothing to lose because this is what would have happened in the long-term anyway. They chose between a quick death and a slow death. Unfortunately, everyone else who originally chose them to protect them didn't get to choose. I doubt most would have voted for this if they had that choice. |
| |
| ▲ | n4r9 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Let's also not forget that Hamas still exists and is regaining numbers and territory: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98g1klxnpxo You can't just stamp out a guerilla resistance the way Israel have tried to do. I suspect Hamas reckoned that a well-timed short term sacrifice would turn global opinion against Israel. | | |
| ▲ | aucisson_masque 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Well they still have the full support of the usa government, and I'm pretty sure that even democrats would still keep supporting Israel. So what did they really lost? Do they even care that some Europeans don't like them ? Europeans are not the one who sell them 99% of their weapons. | | |
| ▲ | basilgohar 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Europe is extremely important to Israel. Their legitimacy stems from seeing themselves as European. Their loss of support from Europe is very bad in the long term. Yes, US is supporting them to. They are losing from both sides, though. They may have part of the remaining generation in power and that's it. | |
| ▲ | jmward01 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The US is no longer a reliable partner. Once the current administration is gone the likelihood of US support is less than guaranteed. Even with this administration in place support is less than guaranteed. All it takes is the right moment to set off a tantrum and friends become enemies. Israel really doesn't have allies so much as accomplices and that type of friend only sticks around when it helps them. | |
| ▲ | LightBug1 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's notable that the US right wing have turned against Israel. Witness Tucker Carlson dismantling Huckabee, and Zionist ideology, recently. Where it ends up, no one knows. But this is different. | | |
| ▲ | phatfish 42 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Trump is as far right as you can go and still support Israel. If America goes further to Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes land Jews will wonder why they let so much evil be done in their name by the Israeli government. |
| |
| ▲ | irishcoffee 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I’m not sure most non-Europeans care what Europeans think about them. :) |
| |
| ▲ | throwaway27448 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Now that the world has knowingly seen a genocide and done virtually nothing, and that the US continues to openly support Israel, I think this was a massive victory for Israel. |
| |
| ▲ | micromacrofoot 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Most people in Gaza now aren't old enough to have voted for Hamas. Median age is estimated to be under 20. | |
| ▲ | neoromantique 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What in actuality was happening long-term is the increasing integration and cooperation of Gazans with Israel, reduction of tensions and hopes for eventual peace. Which is an existencial threat to Hamas. | | |
| ▲ | jeromegv 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Is that the same cooperation seen in the West Bank where Israel keeps sending settlers and make Palestine land smaller and smaller every single year? I highly recommend to watch the Oscar winning movie “no other land”, for anyone that thinks that Israel would just let them leave in peace | | |
| ▲ | neoromantique 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Israeli settlers are despicable, but even in current government those who support them are minority freaks(who Hamas has empowered very much after October 7th). Also it is a two way street, there is also a problem of Palestinian settlers, which while I do want to highlight is separate and in no way justifies the Israeli ones, is still a real problem and harnesses a lot of bad publicity when Israel destroys said illegal settlements. | | |
| ▲ | gxnxcxcx an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | > those who support them are minority freaks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_clean_Wehrmacht | |
| ▲ | basilgohar 16 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Don't make things up. Palestinians cannot settle their own land. The Israelis are the only ones settling, i.e., colonizing. | |
| ▲ | xg15 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Sure, they only have several ministers in the government, Likud politicians show up at settler events, they keep changing the laws to be more in favor of settlers, etc etc... As for Palestinian settlers, where would those even be? | |
| ▲ | umanwizard 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What? Settlers are totally tolerated and supported by the state. Look at Ariel, it is a fully established town settled almost 50 years ago with a university that operates in every practical way as part of Israel. If you think the government doesn't support them, what would support look like? | |
| ▲ | s5300 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
|
| |
| ▲ | umanwizard 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Gaza has been under a near-total naval blockade since 2007 (which is an act of war BTW). Any meaningful "reduction of tensions" would have included lifting that. | | | |
| ▲ | guerrilla 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's not a counterpoint to what I said. | |
| ▲ | selimthegrim 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Uh, was this happening 1967-87? Because they were sure more integrated before the First Intifada |
| |
| ▲ | iberator 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I also almost believe that top echelons of Israeli intelligence knew about the upcoming attack, but they didn't expect THAT many fatalities and that Hamas were going to take hostages alive. | | |
| ▲ | guerrilla 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That's interesting. It could be. Maybe some day we'll find out. | |
| ▲ | prmoustache 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | A never ending conflict is what maintain the Likoud in power. This far right party and government has no interest in peace and is insulting the memory of the people who died in the holocaust. |
|
|
|
| ▲ | postsantum 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Reminds me of Tiananmen square in regard to how stubbornly westerners insist that NOTHING happened in Gaza before 7/23 |
|
| ▲ | ch0wn 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Hamas was the first to cast the stone. That is ignoring many decades of history. |
| |
| ▲ | irishcoffee an hour ago | parent [-] | | How far back do you want to go? Jacob and Esau? | | |
| ▲ | yosamino an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Why are you asking a ridiculous question? To have a useful and productive discussion about the modern conflict, it's pretty obvious that we don't need to go back to Jacob and Esau, but to "Zionism" and it's enabler "European - specifically British and French - colonialism." | |
| ▲ | xg15 44 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | 1881 would be enough. |
|
|
|
| ▲ | asadm 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| - Hamas is well-funded by Israel (to false flag?). |
