> Hamas was insane to think that Bibi would NOT BOMB the Gaza in retaliation.

My theory is that they knew this would happen and they did it because they knew it would garner support (which it did) and they also knew they had nothing to lose because this is what would have happened in the long-term anyway. They chose between a quick death and a slow death. Unfortunately, everyone else who originally chose them to protect them didn't get to choose. I doubt most would have voted for this if they had that choice.

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n4r9 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Let's also not forget that Hamas still exists and is regaining numbers and territory: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98g1klxnpxo

You can't just stamp out a guerilla resistance the way Israel have tried to do. I suspect Hamas reckoned that a well-timed short term sacrifice would turn global opinion against Israel.

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aucisson_masque an hour ago | parent [-]

Well they still have the full support of the usa government, and I'm pretty sure that even democrats would still keep supporting Israel.

So what did they really lost? Do they even care that some Europeans don't like them ? Europeans are not the one who sell them 99% of their weapons.

	▲	basilgohar 23 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Europe is extremely important to Israel. Their legitimacy stems from seeing themselves as European. Their loss of support from Europe is very bad in the long term. Yes, US is supporting them to. They are losing from both sides, though. They may have part of the remaining generation in power and that's it.
	▲	irishcoffee 8 minutes ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I’m not sure most non-Europeans care what Europeans think about them. :)

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iberator 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I also almost believe that top echelons of Israeli intelligence knew about the upcoming attack, but they didn't expect THAT many fatalities and that Hamas were going to take hostages alive.

	▲	prmoustache an hour ago \| parent \| next [-]
		A never ending conflict is what maintain the Likoud in power. This far right party and government has no interest in peace and is insulting the memory of the people who died in the holocaust.
	▲	guerrilla an hour ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		That's interesting. It could be. Maybe some day we'll find out.

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micromacrofoot an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Most people in Gaza now aren't old enough to have voted for Hamas. Median age is estimated to be under 20.

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neoromantique 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What in actuality was happening long-term is the increasing integration and cooperation of Gazans with Israel, reduction of tensions and hopes for eventual peace. Which is an existencial threat to Hamas.

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jeromegv an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Is that the same cooperation seen in the West Bank where Israel keeps sending settlers and make Palestine land smaller and smaller every single year?

I highly recommend to watch the Oscar winning movie “no other land”, for anyone that thinks that Israel would just let them leave in peace

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neoromantique an hour ago | parent [-]

Israeli settlers are despicable, but even in current government those who support them are minority freaks(who Hamas has empowered very much after October 7th).

Also it is a two way street, there is also a problem of Palestinian settlers, which while I do want to highlight is separate and in no way justifies the Israeli ones, is still a real problem and harnesses a lot of bad publicity when Israel destroys said illegal settlements.

	▲	umanwizard 24 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		What? Settlers are totally tolerated and supported by the state. Look at Ariel, it is a fully established town settled almost 50 years ago with a university that operates in every practical way as part of Israel. If you think the government doesn't support them, what would support look like?

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umanwizard an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Gaza has been under a near-total naval blockade since 2007 (which is an act of war BTW). Any meaningful "reduction of tensions" would have included lifting that.

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neoromantique an hour ago | parent [-]

The blockade that has been held up even by UN as legal blockade? Disarming of Hamas will has to come first, sorry.

-- Dang decided I should not comment and ratelimited me, fair enough. Response to the comment reply: It means that even if UN of all things could not figure out how to condemn Israel for it, then maybe, just maybe, the reasons for it were valid?

	▲	umanwizard 43 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		That is an obvious lie, but also, even if it were true, who cares? It doesn't really matter what the UN thinks about anything.

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guerrilla 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's not a counterpoint to what I said.

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selimthegrim 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Uh, was this happening 1967-87? Because they were sure more integrated before the First Intifada