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fourseventy a day ago

It's insane that they aren't public yet. Their investors must be pressuring them like crazy to IPO.

jameskilton a day ago | parent | next [-]

Stripe has been doing annual tender offers. Their stance on not being public yet is that they don't need to be, as an IPO is mainly a way to raise money.

As an ex-Stripe, I understand the sentiment, and the tender offers are a nice middle ground for now, but I still would like to see them go public eventually.

tyre a day ago | parent | next [-]

I hope they never go public (also as an ex-Stripe!)

I can't really see a net-positive benefit to having public shareholders and reporting requirements. Do we think Stripe's leadership needs feedback from random investment advisors or analysts? Do employees need the distraction of daily-updating stock prices? Would quarterly reporting incentivize better decision making?

In my opinion: ehhhhhhhhhhhh

I see the benefit, but if you're joining Stripe you know the trade-off of RSUs in a company that doesn't provide daily liquidity. They provide it on a regular basis, so you're not locked in forever (a la my 2014 Gusto shares).

bryanlarsen a day ago | parent | next [-]

I'm sure they already have more than the 500 non-accredited or 2000 accredited shareholder total that would trigger most of those reporting requirements anyways. So Stripe already has most of the drawbacks of being a public company without the benefits.

kasey_junk a day ago | parent [-]

The reporting isn’t the drawbacks of being public, it’s the investors.

They get to _choose_ who they let in if they are private (by definition).

They don’t need the public’s money and don’t want the headache of dealing with the public. I’d completely agree if I were them.

Disclaimer: ex-stripe who is still an investor.

bryanlarsen 21 hours ago | parent [-]

The vast majority of public shareholders don't vote their shares. A VC is much more likely to apply unwanted pressure to the board/management than the general public is.

IMO, the best reason to avoid an IPO is to stay out of the media.

overfeed 20 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The VC likely already has ownership, and a board seat - public companies are susceptible to activist-investors and hostile bids: outsiders who hold little/no stake, but an outsized influence.

bryanlarsen 19 hours ago | parent [-]

Neither of which would be relevant in the Stripe case, because if Stripe IPO's they'll release a negligible number of shares. It'd be impossible for either group to amass a substantial number of shares.

overfeed 19 hours ago | parent [-]

Why IPO at all, if they will release a "negligible number of shares"?

bryanlarsen 18 hours ago | parent [-]

A low liquidity IPO would likely result in a massive share price increase: the number of interested buyers would vastly outnumber the number of shares available.

toomuchtodo 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Harder for activist investors to get into a private company than a public one imho. Keeps out those who would squeeze the business and bail, and potentially kick out the founders. With sufficient cashflow (which Stripe most certainly has), you can buy out existing investors without going public.

(not ex-Stripe, but own startup equity and have no problem with them never going public if that is the choice; optimize for the enterprise and existing stakeholders, not the public market mechanics broadly speaking)

bryanlarsen 19 hours ago | parent [-]

You'd need to amass 50% of the shares to kick out the founders. That'd be impossible for a hostile party to do if Stripe IPO's because they wouldn't release anywhere close to that number of shares.

The only way to kick out the Collison's would be for the VC's to do it. They currently own 80%. It's easier for the VC's to do that if Stripe stays private than if Stripe IPO's.

ahmetd 14 hours ago | parent [-]

How do you know if they do/don't have a dual-class share structure?

est31 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'd say it has advantages and disadvantages.

One advantage is that whales can't play around with the stock price, say VCs dumping stocks at an unfortunate moment and putting pressure on the price. But it's also just wall street folks doing price manipulation for options schemes that can be an issue (it's illegal but has low enforcement if you are rich and well connected). Also lower chance of activist investors, and less of a quarterly pressure to show nice numbers, etc.

The advantage is also a disadvantage: minority shareholders of non-public companies have much less rights than those of public ones, and that includes employees. That's part of why you are dependent on the founder's goodwill on whether a startup exit can screw over rank and file employees or not. I'm not sure how much that danger is still out there if the company is doing tender offers, but it might still exist actually. Similarly, you can structure tender offers in a way that say former employees are disadvantaged, and many other arbitrary criteria.

Note that this depends greatly on the jurisdiction, e.g. in Germany there is legislation that's unfriendly to minority shareholders even for public companies, e.g. visible in the Varta takeover, imo part of why the idea of adding stocks to pensions will be ripe for money grabbing schemes of whales against the smaller owners.

Also employee of private company with tender offers, but not Stripe. Opinions my own.

malfist a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Do very many companies provide daily liquidity? Most of my time getting RSUs have had trading windows, once a quarter if you're lucky.

toast0 a day ago | parent [-]

When I was an employee of a subsidiary of Infospace, my RSUs were always worthless (honestly, I don't remember if any vested while I was there), at Yahoo, we could generally trade, although one shouldn't trade immediately after earnings, but I don't remember if this was enforced at the affiliated brokerage. At Facebook, I think it was typically a three week window every quarter.

Of course, if you quit, the windows are no longer in force, although if you have material non-public information, you're still not allowed to trade. Maybe there'a a share price where you'd rather quit and sell than hold on until the window opens.

coffeemug 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Also ex-Stripe. This suggests an opportunity to build an exchange that addresses these problems. Could one build an exchange with deliberate "turn-based" liquidity to avoid the problem of daily stock price distraction, for example? (This is hard because there will always be secondary markets, but presumably this is already the case.)

Rastonbury 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I get the feeling that the founders will not bend and invest for long term and not quarterly, as a non ex-stripe at least judging by their patience to IPO

fnordpiglet 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The latest self funded tenders have been pretty tiny. I wouldn’t term it as “liquidity” as much as a symbolic gesture.

tyre 21 hours ago | parent [-]

AFAIK none of the recent tenders have been self-funded. They’ve matched external investors who want shares with employees.

Also, not sure what you mean by "tiny". It's been billions of dollars.

coldpie a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Going public is the fastest way to turn a solid, functioning business into a hideous, infinite-growth chasing ghoul that everyone hates. Don't do it.

bryanlarsen a day ago | parent | next [-]

Instead they are mostly owned by VC's, who will more directly pressure them to do that than the general public owners will.

The important part is that the Collison's control Stripe now. When that changes things may go down hill. It won't matter if it is public or not.

WheatMillington 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As opposed to VC owners, who are famously satisfied with slow growth. Right?

sensanaty 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

And VCs are what, patient angels who invest their money out of the goodness of their hearts expecting no returns?

maratc a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Above certain amount of shareholders, the rules for the public companies start applying, so you get all of the disadvantages of being a public company (like SEC filings, etc.) without the advantages (like ability to raise money.) IIRC this is what forced $MSFT to do IPO in 1986.

giancarlostoro 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm glad. I don't think every company needs to be on the stock market, and companies that are profitable like Stripe is, absolutely do not need to be on the stock market. Why? So people can buy and sell their stock on a whim?

johnny_canuck 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Are there caps on how much you could sell during the tender offer? I had one come through my email ~3 years ago for a company I previously worked for. IIRC it allowed you to sell up to 10% of your stock.

armadyl a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> As an ex-Stripe, I understand the sentiment, and the tender offers are a nice middle ground for now, but I still would like to see them go public eventually.

This is an incredibly odd sentiment, imo. What’s the desire to see them go public unless you personally are profiting from it? Going public would quickly set Stripe on a pathway to potential enshittification and at minimum starting to squeeze the consumers and businesses it provides services to more.

paxys a day ago | parent | next [-]

If they are ex-Stripe they are likely holding shares, and so yes they would personally profit from going public.

jez a day ago | parent [-]

The tender offer announced in the article is open to former employees as well, so they personally profit regardless of Stripe being public (unless the claim is that by being public the valuation would be materially higher than the stated valuation for this offer).

shevy-java a day ago | parent | prev [-]

There may be a conflict of interest with ex-Stripe folks wanting to see a move towards x or y.

adventured a day ago | parent | prev [-]

An IPO today is mainly a way for major investors - those that want out - to liquidate out in a big way by dumping to a very large mass of investors. There is no other means to do that without signaling a gigantic loss of confidence.

Raising money as a private entity is trivial these days if you're in the league that Stripe is. See: the comical AI private funding levels.

hypeatei a day ago | parent [-]

> An IPO today is mainly a way for major investors

Major investors and insiders. Stay the hell away from IPOs if you're not an institution getting access to shares at a reasonable price.

baxtr a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’s sad.

Public companies allow the rest of us to participate in a success story like this.

Until IPO it’s only a selected group of affluent people who have access to these private companies.

cwbrandsma a day ago | parent | next [-]

IPOs also kill a lot of companies. Now you have a new list of investors you are obligated to attend to, and what those investors what is not always to make your company more successful, if it can make more money now.

bryanlarsen a day ago | parent | next [-]

The reverse is much more true. When private equity takes a public company private, there's a 50% chance they'll kill the company.

Also, private companies fail at a much higher rate than public ones do.

tptacek 21 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't think PE buyouts are the right comparison here; we're talking about companies that never go public versus the ones that do.

And, of course private companies fail at a much higher rate. The set of private companies includes every company that doesn't succeed to the point where it has the realistic choice to go public. Again: wrong comparison.

bryanlarsen 21 hours ago | parent | next [-]

A general IPO is also not the right comparison. The events that kill companies are changes in control whether they happen from going public or going private. If Stripe IPO's, the Collison's will stay firmly in control, and approximately nothing will change at Stripe.

tptacek 20 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm not coming down on either side of the public/private thing, just saying that take-privates and failed small private companies aren't meaningful comparisons to make.

antiford2049 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

when companies go public usually the easy money has been made, and for the growth to come back a lot of time might pass.

frankly i dont know why would one go public today unless money is needed badly. Quarterly calls, filings, are one thing, dealing with vest bros asking "so how should we think about" questions on round tables or "whats an incrimental margin" musings as they clack away at their mini keyboards filling out their model no body can make sense of.. and then someone will publish a blog saying their company is gonna be extinct because of AI ... this is not for everybody thats for sure...

fragmede 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Private equity is vs not going public in the first place though. Private equity is also the wrong measure because there's good private equity and bad private equity, and we most commonly hear about bad private equity. Eg Toys'R'us. Typically when buying a company, in order to but the company in the first place, PE saddles the company up with debt in order to make the purchase in the first place (which is bananas in the first if you think about it). So then the distressed company now has additional debt payments to make. Making their already distressed situation even worse. Now, the theory is that PE is able to make the company more "efficient" with their PE know-how, and sometimes they do. There's no time machine too go back and undo the PE purchase of Toys'r'us and see what would have actually unfolded, but what we can say is having to make additional debt payments hastened their demise.

So it's true PE taking a company private has a high failure rate as far as the continuation of the company, the question is if the goal of PE is for the company to continue in the first place, or if that gets in the way of them extracting as money as possible as fast as possible. So 50% is certainly a statistic, but not useful for comparison, especially if we're looking at a private company staying private.

kibwen a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not just the IPO. Being public at all subjects you to the perverse and destructive incentive of needing to maximize shareholder value. Just because some private companies take VC funding (and subject themselves to analogous forces) doesn't mean that's required or expected.

gmd63 a day ago | parent [-]

Needing to maximize shareholder value is a myth. There is no law that requires you to do that - people like to use the idea as an excuse to do scummy business.

malfist a day ago | parent | next [-]

Sure, it's a dubious legal requirement at best. But you try telling people that on an earnings call and watch your valuation plummet because you took a long position and the market wanted a next quarter position. And even if you don't care about selling your stock personally, it does impact your ability to raise funds.

elictronic 21 hours ago | parent [-]

Short term investors don’t matter. They are going to pull out and move to the next thing.

arcticbull a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Depends. In Michigan it is binding precedent, see Dodge v. Ford (1919).

Delaware corporations must act in the interests of shareholders.

rurp 21 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's an incredibly vague standard and courts have repeatedly declined to get involved in second guessing management decisions. Aside from outright fraud or negligence executives can claim almost any business related decision is in the interest of shareholders because they have a reasonable expectation that the future benefits outweigh the costs. Judges aren't going to be delving into financial projections and expense reports to override the leaders of a business.

A widget company could sponsor a soccer team or whatever and say the costs are worth it. Or that same company could not do that and say it's not worth it. Two opposite decisions that both would count as acting in the interest of shareholders.

arcticbull 21 hours ago | parent [-]

> That's an incredibly vague standard and courts have repeatedly declined to get involved

Which courts? Corporate law is state-level. Delaware generally has some affordances for long-term strategic decisions.

elictronic 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This case was specifically about dividends and long term shareholder value, not quarterly results.

baxtr a day ago | parent | prev [-]

So keep the profits only for the rich then? I rather see more IPOs for the rest of us.

kdheiwns 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

IPOs result in companies cutting corners and offering worse service so they can offer more benefits to rich stockholders this quarter, so they can cash out and burn the company to move on to the next one. Private companies plan for their existence 10 years down the road.

Why should anyone be entitled to stocks of a company?

OGEnthusiast a day ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

RobRivera a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

High risk high reward - I think if I ponied up capital, I'd rather not feel obliged to 'share the success' unless it were part of a needed capital raising.

WarcrimeActual a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I see it differently, and not in a particularly popular manner. Public companies allow those that are already pretty well off to rocket past those who can't afford shares, therefore adding to the disparity. I despise sudden or inherited wealth though so I'm not the best barometer for how things should work when it comes to this. I can't count how many times I've been made almost physically ill hearing about the next meme stock that made some nobody a millionaire overnight.

j45 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Private companies have the right to be private until if or when they decide not to be private.

Navigating the risk and growth allows them to navigate their growth and rewards while maybe in the drivers seat a bit more.

baxtr a day ago | parent [-]

No one said they don’t have the right.

But for the good of all of society, it would be better if they did.

j45 19 hours ago | parent [-]

How would becoming a public company be better for all of society?

Stock markets are not entirely logical from my understanding.

thinkingtoilet a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

IPOs really only benefit already wealthy people as well. It's not like poor people can dump tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in stock.

derektank a day ago | parent [-]

Working class people have 401ks and pension plans

paxys a day ago | parent | prev [-]

We usually hear about the success stories, but public markets have killed wayyyy more companies than they have helped. Unless they really need the money it's always in a company's own best interests to stay private for as long as possible.

rf15 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why ask for IPO to dillute the effective investor pool if you are already making a ton of money consistently?

fourseventy a day ago | parent [-]

To give liquidity to investors.

onion2k a day ago | parent | next [-]

The cost of that liquidity is missing out on realizing future growth though. It's fairly safe to assume that as there isn't an IPO yet the investors want to hold rather than cash in returns. They probably believe there's more growth potential, and that the board are the right people to deliver it.

303space a day ago | parent | next [-]

If you bought Stripe at a 95b valuation in 2021 your returns are barely keeping up with the SP500 after this latest round. Not exactly an elite capital growth machine.

j45 a day ago | parent | next [-]

Perhaps infrastructure has a different kind of long term upside.

YetAnotherNick 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You forgot to mention its valuation grew by 2.6x in the previous 3 months. 2021 was different thing altogether with the money printing.

skybrian a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Even for good investments, investors will want to sell at some point rather than owning an investment forever, if only to diversify.

onion2k a day ago | parent [-]

Sure, at some point. Maybe that isn't now though.

fourseventy 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The early VCs have been in Stripe for 16 years already. They need Stripe to IPO so they can get liquidity in order to provide returns to their LPs. VCs can't hold onto the stock forever, they need to provide DPI otherwise they won't be able to raise future funds.

KK7NIL a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The cost of that liquidity is missing out on realizing future growth though.

Why would it be? I don't believe an IPO has to be dilutive, it can be done with already issued shares. I grant you that's not usually how they're done though.

j45 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Maybe certain types of growth aren't the goal for Stripe at present.

Cyph0n a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Don’t they already get to participate in secondary markets to liquidate?

KK7NIL a day ago | parent [-]

They can, but it's orders of magnitudes less liquid than the public stock market.

Liquidity!= ability to liquidate or not, BTW, it's more of a continuous spectrum.

Cyph0n 20 hours ago | parent [-]

I see, thanks for the clarification.

jameson a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Everything's public appearance until S1 is filed

mercwear a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I hope they hold off - going public tends to kill innovation and replace it with bureaucracy

anovikov a day ago | parent [-]

Almost as if there's a lot to innovate in a "dumb pipe" a payment processor naturally is.

jacquesm a day ago | parent | next [-]

At scale, payment processors are amongst the most difficult things you could do because every two bit crook out there is going to try to scam you somehow.

dewey a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Can probably build it in a weekend.

malfist a day ago | parent | next [-]

You let me know when VISA lets you colocate into their rack for processing payments with your built in a weekend vibe coded project.

dewey a day ago | parent | next [-]

I guess I should've added "/s" :P

pestaa a day ago | parent | prev [-]

dewey was joking.

elictronic 21 hours ago | parent [-]

Management reading a thread like this need the /s.

xarope 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I know you mean this with a /s, but hey, we just need a proper File Transfer Protocol, an SQL-lite database server, and some simple vibe coded python business logic, no test cases required.

What can go wrong... (/s just in case as well)

ggregoire 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

in 2 hours with claude code

zer00eyz a day ago | parent | prev [-]

The thing is they have "tooling" to help create their own customers:

https://stripe.com/atlas

They also have a tax product, and a few other things that are in the orbit around payment processing.

Their product offerings are a bit more than just the "dumb pipe" portion of the transaction.

cmiles8 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The markets are skeptical at the moment. A bunch of tech IPOs in the last few years have tanked 70+% since the IPO and that can be devastating to a company.

Also there’s a ton of overhead associated with being public that nobody really wants to do so companies now stay private as long as they can get away with.

mattas a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wonder if there will be a class of VC that intends to provide LPs with income in addition to capital appreciation. If it doesn't make sense to go public, then focus on cash flow and kick of steady income to investors.

a day ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
pewpewp 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How do you ruin a good company? Simple. Go public

ndr a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Will they ever have to go public? I imagine there's a way they can buy everything back.

paxys a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Investors can pressure you when you are worth single digit or low double digit billions. At $100B+ you are calling the shots, and if investors aren't happy they can sell their shares in the next tender offer.

StopDisinfo910 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The cynic in me thinks they don't want to crash their valuation.

gamblor956 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Companies that keep delaying going public generally do so to keep hidden unfavorable data.

Private companies can say whatever they want about their performance as long as they don't lie to their own investors; public companies can't.

darth_avocado a day ago | parent [-]

You don’t have to go public at all. If you’re profitable and your investors don’t want an exit, then you can stay private in perpetuity. Epic is a great example of that.

doctorpangloss 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

why do you figure? in some sectors, IPOs were literally 10x larger in 2023 than 2016, but i am not sure specifically about fintech. ask pitchbook. that increases IRR by a whole +1.4, just by waiting.

stefan_ a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Might be too late already, seeing how we are well past "peak SaaS" (and frankly Stripe have slowed down and lost a lot of the glitter in years past).