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fallous 9 hours ago

You just described the burden of outsourcing programming.

onion2k 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Outsourcing development and vibe coding are incredibly similar processes.

If you just chuck ideas at the external coding team/tool you often get rubbish back.

If you're good at managing the requirements and defining things well you can achieve very good things with much less cost.

darkwater 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

With the basic and enormous difference that the feedback loop is 100 or even 1000x faster. Which changes the type of game completely, although other issues will probably arise as we try this new path.

Terr_ 6 hours ago | parent [-]

That embeds an assumption that the outsourced human workers are incapable of thought, and experience/create zero feedback loops of their own.

Frustrated rants about deliverables aside, I don't think that's the case.

darkwater 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

No. It just means the harsh reality: what's really soul crushing in outsourced work is having endless meetings to pass down / get back information, having to wait days/weeks/months to get some "deliverable" back on which iterate etc. Yes, outsourced human workers are totally capable of creative thinking that makes sense, but their incentive will always be throughput over quality, since their bosses usually give closed prices (at least in what I lived personally).

If you are outsourcing to an LLM in this case YOU are still in charge of the creative thought. You can just judge the output and tune the prompts or go deep in more technical details and tradeoffs. You are "just" not writing the actual code anymore, because another layer of abstraction has been added.

Jagerbizzle 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Also, with an LLM you can tell it to throw away everything and start over whenever you want.

When you do this with an outsourced team, it can happen at most once per sprint, and with significant pushback, because there's a desire for them to get paid for their deliverable even if it's not what you wanted or suffers some other fundamental flaw.

raw_anon_1111 an hour ago | parent [-]

Yep, just these past two weeks. I tried to reuse an implementation I had used for another project, it took me a day to modify it (with Codex), I tried it out and it worked fine with a few hundred documents.

Then I tried to push through 50000 documents, it crashed and burned like I suspected. It took one day to go from my second more complicated but more scalable spec where I didn’t depend on an AWS managed service to working scalable code.

It would have taken me at least a week to do it myself

dimitrios1 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

It doesn't have to be soul crushing.

Just like people more, and have better meetings.

Life is what you make it.

Enjoy yourself while you can.

ambicapter an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Not really, its just obviously true that the communication cycle with your terminal/LLM is faster than with a human over Slack/email.

tomrod 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

100%! There is significant analogy between the two!

salawat 8 hours ago | parent [-]

There is a reason management types are drawn to it like flies to shit.

theshrike79 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Working with and communicating with offshored teams is a specific skill too.

There are tips and tricks on how to manage them and not knowing them will bite you later on. Like the basic thing of never asking yes or no questions, because in some cultures saying "no" isn't a thing. They'll rather just default to yes and effectively lie than admit failure.

9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
agumonkey 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

We need a new word for on-premise offshoring.

On-shoring ;

aleph_minus_one 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> On-shoring

I thought "on-shoring" is already commonly used for the process that undos off-shoring.

saghm 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

How about "in-shoring"? We already have "insuring" and "ensuring", so we might as well add another confusingly similar sounding term to our vocabulary.

weebull 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

How about we leave "...shoring" alone?

5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
boring-human an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

En-shoring?

tmtvl 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Rubber-duckying... although a rubber ducky can't write code... infinite-monkeying?

biofox 12 minutes ago | parent [-]

In silico duckying

pferde 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Corporate has been using the term "best-shoring" for a couple of years now. To my best guess, it means "off-shoring or on-shoring, whichever of the two is cheaper".

intended 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ai-shoring.

Tech-shoring.

johnisgood 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Would work, but with "snoring". :D

dzdt 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

vibe-shoring

heliumtera 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

We already have a perfect one

Slop;