| ▲ | Starman_Jones 17 hours ago |
| Very confused by this plan. Data centers on Earth are struggling with how to get rid of waste heat. It's really, really hard to get rid of waste heat in space. That seems to be about the worst possible place to put a data center. |
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| ▲ | Spooky23 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| It’s a distraction as they suck out as much value from Tesla as possible before the music stops and they go bust. There are a few really big IPOs this year including SpaceX, which will likely trigger significant market volatility. |
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| ▲ | 93po 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | yes, tesla, famously the worst performing car manufacturer with the worst profit margins, is definitely going bust any day now | | |
| ▲ | oblio 23 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > Sales of Tesla's electric Cybertruck fell 48% in 2025, new data shows. > Tesla sold 20,237 Cybertrucks in 2025, down from 38,965 the previous year, according to figures from Kelley Blue Book's annual electric vehicle (EV) sales reports. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-sales-elon-mus... > A federal safety report shows that Tesla is recalling 63,619 of its futuristic pickups, and this seems to be the total number of Cybertrucks built since the first one was delivered at the end of 2023. https://www.arenaev.com/teslas_latest_recall_reveals_real_cy... > Musk said that it's time to put the Model S and Model X vehicles to rest. Now it's not that huge of a change, given that 97% of Tesla's sales consist of Model 3 and Model Y cars, but the Model S is still the original car delivered by Tesla. https://www.arenaev.com/tesla_discontinues_the_model_s_and_m... > The financial report paints a grim picture for the company. Tesla's total profit for 2025 was €3.24 billion. That is a lot of money, whichever way you look at it, but it is actually 46 percent less than what the company made in 2024. The profit margin, which is the percentage of money the company keeps after paying expenses, fell to just 4.9 percent. In 2022, that number sat at 23.8 percent. > One of the most interesting parts of the financial report is how Tesla made its money. A large chunk of its profit did not come from selling EVs to people. Instead, it came from selling "regulatory credits" to other car companies that need help meeting pollution rules. These credits brought in €2 billion. > That means 52 percent of Tesla's entire profit for the year came from these credits, not from selling vehicles. If Tesla did not have those credits, the financial results would look much worse. And the problem the company is facing? Those credits are gone; they won't be part of Tesla's business model this year since they were cancelled by the current administration. https://www.arenaev.com/tesla_profits_drop_as_automaker_star... Tesla is betting on long shots like humanoid robots and self driving taxis everywhere. There are other desperation moves like merging Tesla (profitable) with SpaceX (I think it's also profitable? but most of its business is governments: risky markets) and xAI (most likely wildly unprofitable, just like Twitter). | |
| ▲ | light_triad 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Here's some context: Tesla, BYD, and Xiaomi Are Playing Different Games
https://gilpignol.substack.com/p/tesla-byd-and-xiaomi-are-pl... | |
| ▲ | turtlesdown11 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > with the worst profit margins The 2025 profit margin for Telsa was 4.6%. Toyota's was 9.4%. Telsa is famously on a multi-year sales and revenue decline. | |
| ▲ | Spooky23 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Clearly 200 forward P/E and three consecutive quarters of missed earning is a sign of profitability. It's a stock worth $50-60 with generous valuation. The premium is the Elon bullshit and grift. That isn't gonna last forever. | |
| ▲ | tokai 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Keep up. |
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| ▲ | palmotea 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That's not Elon's problem. He's an ideas guy. Data centers in space is definitely an idea. |
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| ▲ | Mordisquitos 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Indeed. I would go so far as to assert that, of all the ideas that have ever been proposed in the history of humanity, data centres in space is most certainly one of them. | | | |
| ▲ | mhh__ 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yeah he only micromanages (look at his old blog) every detail he has time for at an extremely successful aerospace engineering company, just an ideas guy. | | |
| ▲ | youarentrightjr 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Yeah he only micromanages (look at his old blog) every detail he has time for at an extremely successful aerospace engineering company, just an ideas guy. Have you ever spoken to someone who works at SpaceX? I have multiple friends in the industry, who have taken a trip through the company. The overwhelming consensus is that - in meetings, you nod along and tell Elon "great idea". Immediately after you get back to real engineering and design things such that they make sense. The folks working there are under no delusion that he has any business being involved in rocket science, it's fascinating that the general public doesn't see it that way. | | |
| ▲ | ta988 15 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Or you are actively trying to have the meetings when you are sure he cannot be present because he keeps derailing them. | |
| ▲ | gordian-mind 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Any cool kid in uni has had the same views as you do for ten years. What do you and them know that the countless extremely successful engineers who actually worked with Elon do not? https://erik-engheim.medium.com/is-elon-musk-just-a-sales-gu... | | |
| ▲ | youarentrightjr 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | > What do you and them know that the countless extremely successful engineers who actually worked with Elon do not? Did you read my comment? "I have multiple friends in the industry, who have taken a trip through the company." I am literally referring to extremely successful engineers who have worked directly with Elon. I'm going to need more than a puff piece on some random Elon stan's medium page to outweigh what I've heard from my friends. | | |
| ▲ | gordian-mind 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | youarentrightjr 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | > This medium page simply quotes people. Feel free to quote your imaginary friends on your own medium page. Simply quotes people with obvious large financial interest in the success of the company, who are therefore motivated to continue the super genius narrative. I guess we all have our biases - I believe first hand accounts, you believe social media posts. To each his own. |
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| ▲ | mhh__ 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Why are they doing any better than any other firm then? Why has Tesla been successful? Why is xAI pretty similar in terms of approach? My idea has less variables than yours. It also doesn't fly with his tendency to fire people. | | |
| ▲ | youarentrightjr 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Why are they doing any better than any other firm then? Any other firm, you mean like the bloated and bureaucratic NASA/JPL/defense contractor madhouse? That's not much competition. > Why has Tesla been successful? Why is xAI pretty similar in terms of approach?
My idea has less variables than yours. It also doesn't fly with his tendency to fire people. Your "idea" (statement) is that his companies are successful due to his micromanagement. In reality, they're successful in spite of it. Like all impactful engineering institutions, there are incredibly talented people working at the "bottom" levels of these companies that hold the whole thing together. There's a good bit of irony here in your thought that he'd fire people that didn't agree with him or disobeyed him. From what I've heard, he lacks the technical rigor to even understand how what was implemented differs from his totally awesome and cool, off the cuff, reality adjacent ideas. The myth of the supergenius CEO has real potential to influence investors, beyond that, the hard engineering is up to the engineers. Period. SpaceX wouldn't have gotten past o-ring selection with Elon at the engineering helm. | | |
| ▲ | robocat 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | > NASA/JPL/defense contractor Perhaps learn to look around the world. Europe has nothing, China is working on copying. New Zealand has RocketLab but looks like they've sold out to the states and is only for small payloads yet. | | |
| ▲ | youarentrightjr 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Perhaps learn to look around the world. Europe has nothing, China is working on copying. New Zealand has RocketLab but looks like they've sold out to the states and is only for small payloads yet. And which of those is also an American institution, with American educated employees and American cultural values, operating in an American legal and business framework? Pretending NZ is a relevant comparison point is laughable. I bet SpaceX is also doing better than the 5th grade STEM class down the street! Russia would've been a much better comparison given the history of the world we live in, but still not apples to apples. |
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| ▲ | lokar 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Shedding the very slow process of “legacy” defense/aerospace companies, taking more risks, moving faster, accepting some setbacks etc does not mean you need to go full Musk. There is a middle ground. | |
| ▲ | ambicapter 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Have you ever worked at a company? Was how profitable the company was directly related to how high-functioning it was? Not in my experience. | |
| ▲ | CamperBob2 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The same reason why Microsoft was able to kick everybody else out of the PC operating system and office software sectors: everybody else was even less competent. | | |
| ▲ | robocat 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I always felt that Microsoft's winning move was to be consistently mediocre. They just waited until competitors screwed up. Now they're following in IBMs or Intel's footsteps - concentrating everything on the enterprise market and slowly dying. | |
| ▲ | mhh__ 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Bill Gates was also pretty good |
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| ▲ | lokar 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I have heard similar things |
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| ▲ | Keyframe 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Very confused by this plan. How about now? https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce3ex92557jo |
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| ▲ | general1465 16 hours ago | parent [-] | | Well this explains why, but does not answer how to get rid of excessive heat in space. | | |
| ▲ | avmich 15 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | What kind of the problem you're talking about compared to existing satellites? That is, all existing satellites generate power, and need to dissipate that power, and most of it goes to waste heat, and the satellites somehow do that successfully - what is the specific problem you're talking about, which can't be solved by the same means? | | |
| ▲ | verytrivial 15 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The numbers matter. The thermal budget a satellite is an tightly controlled thing. Large modern ones are in the order of a few to a couple of 10s of kilowatts, so something like a few to several low 10s of modern GPU compute power. Even with thousands of yet to be designed or launched satellites, it's going to have trouble competing with even a single current DC, plus it is in SAPCE for some reason, so everything is more expensive for lots of reasons. | | |
| ▲ | avmich 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | > it's going to have trouble competing with even a single current DC This looks like a valid argument to me, yes. Elon mentioned 1,000,000 satellites - I'm thinking about 3rd version of Starlink as a typical example, 2 tons, 60 satellites per Starship launch, 16,000 Starship launches for the constellation, comparing with 160 launches per year of today's Falcon 9... The argument about problems of dissipating heat still stands - I don't see a valid counterargument here. Also "SAPCE" problem looks different from the point of view of this project - https://www.50dollarsat.info/ . Basically, out launch costs go way down, and quality of electronics and related tech today on Earth is high enough to work on LEO. |
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| ▲ | jasonwatkinspdx 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Even the buses for giant communications satellites are still at the single digit kilowatt scale. The current state of the art in AI datacenters is 500+ kw per rack. So you're talking about an entirely different scale of power and needed cooling. | |
| ▲ | idontwantthis 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The ISS's radiators weigh thousands of kilograms to radiate around 70 KW. He's talking about building data centers in space in the GW range. Assuming he built this in LEO (which doesn't make sense because of atmospheric drag), and the highest estimates for what starship could one day deliver to LEO (200 metric tons), and only 1 metric ton of radiators per 100KW, that's 50 launches just to carry up the radiators. | |
| ▲ | nilamo 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Are there many of those current satellites running gpus and actually generating lots of heat? | | |
| ▲ | avmich 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | Principally speaking, as much energy as satellite receives from solar panels it needs to send away - and often a lot of it is in the form of heat. So, the question is, how much energy is received in the first place. We currently have some quarter of megawatt of solar panels of ISS, so in principal - in principal - we know how to do this kind of scale per satellite. In practice we perhaps will have more smaller satellites which together aggregate the compute to the necessary lever and power to the corresponding level. | | |
| ▲ | vel0city 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | > We currently have some quarter of megawatt of solar panels of ISS It's average outbut is like half of that though. So something the size of the space station, a massive thing which is largely solar panels and radiators, can do like 120kW sustained. Like 1-2 racks of GPUs, assuming you used the entire power budget on GPUs. And we're going to build and launch millions of these. |
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| ▲ | protocolture 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I mean you have this around the wrong way. The reason we dont have a lot of compute in space, is because of the heat issue. We could have greater routing density on communication satellites, if we could dissipate more heat. If Starlink had solved this issue they would have like triple the capacity and could just drop everything back to the US (like their fans think they do) rather than trying to minimise the number of satellites traffic passes through before exiting back to a ground station usually in the same country as the source. In fact, conspiratorially, I think thats the problem he wants to solve. Because wet dreams of an unhindered, unregulated, space internet are completely unanswered in the engineering of Starlink. I have actually argued this from the other side, and I reckon space data centres are sort of feasible in a thought experimental sense. I think its a solvable problem eventually. But heat is the major limiting factor and back of the napkin math stinks tbh. IIRC the size/weight of the satellite is going to get geometrically larger as you increase the compute size due to the size of the required cooling system. Then we get into a big argument about how you bring the heat from the component to the cooling system. I think oil, but its heavy again, and several space engineering types want to slap me in the face for suggesting it. Some rube goldberg copper heatpipe network through atmosphere system seems to be preferred. I feel like, best case, its a Tesla situation, he clears the legislative roadblocks and solves some critical engineering problem by throwing money at it, and then other, better people step in to actually do it. Also triple the time he says it will take to solve the problem. And then, ultimately, as parts fail theres diminishing returns on the satellite. And you dont even get to take the old hardware to the secondary market, it gets dropped in the ocean or burnt up on reentry. |
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| ▲ | reactordev 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It’s a vacuum | | |
| ▲ | floren 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | Vacuum being so famous for not conducting heat that we use it to keep our coffee hot | | |
| ▲ | reactordev 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | which is why the whole idea of data centers in space is ridiculous. | | |
| ▲ | floren 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'm glad to realize we're in violent agreement, I thought you were implying cooling would be easy due to the vacuum! | | |
| ▲ | reactordev 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | It can be solved with radiator fins and cold plates but yeah, it’s not an easy task. |
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| ▲ | jillesvangurp 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You are confusing engineering challenges with show stoppers. Cooling in space is a well studied problem with a few possible solutions. They all boil down to needing a lot of mass to radiate heat out to the universe and ways to conduct heat. We've been doing that at small scale for decades. SpaceX is already operating a fleet of many thousands of satellites that they built and engineered. They'd be well familiar with this challenge. Once you have solutions, it turns into a cost problem. And if that cost is too high (for whatever arbitrary threshold you use for that) it becomes an optimization problem. This whole thread reads like a lot of "but ... but ... but ...". It all boils down to people assuming things about what is too much or too hard. And it's all meaningless unless you actually bother to articulate those assumptions. What exactly is too hard here? What would it take to address those issues? What would the cost be? Put some numbers on it. There are also all sorts of assumptions about what is valuable and what isn't. You can't say something is too hard or too costly without making assertions about what is worth paying for and what isn't. The answers are going to be boring. We need X amounts of giga tons launched to orbit at Y amount of dollars. OK great. What happens if launch cost drops by 1 or 2 orders of magnitude? What happens if the amount of mass needed drops because of some engineering innovation? Massively dropping launch cost is roughly what SpaceX is proposing to do with Star Ship. Is it still "too hard"? You can't have that debate until you put numbers on your assertions. There's a bit of back of the envelope math involved here but we're roughly talking about a million satellites. In the order of ~2.5 million tonnes of mass (at 2.5 ton per satellite). Tens of thousands of Star Ship launches basically. It's definitely a big project. We're talking about 1-2 order magnitude increase of the scale of operations for SpaceX going from lower hundreds to thousands of launches per year spread over maybe 10-15 years to work up to a million satellites. I'm more worried about what all that mass is going to do when it burns up in the atmosphere / drops in the oceans. At that scale it's no longer just a drop in the ocean. |
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| ▲ | zarzavat 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Nobody is saying that building a data center in space is impossible. It's merely expensive. Who is going to pay the money to rent capacity in space when they could rent the same capacity on Earth for a fraction of the cost? |
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| ▲ | general1465 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Well the issue is that a lot of people believe that space is cold. If you will ask Google/Gemini what is a temperature of space, it will tell you: The average temperature of deep space is approximately -270.45°C or 2.73 Kelvin), which is just above absolute zero. This baseline temperature is set by the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) radiatio... Which is absolute nonsense, because vacuum has no temperature. |
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| ▲ | jfengel 15 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Vacuum does have a temperature; it has a blackbody temperature. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-body_radiation It has nothing to do with the movements of atoms, but just with the spectrum of photons moving through it. It means that eventually, any object left in space will reach that temperature. But it will not necessarily do it quickly, which is what you need if you're trying to cool something that is emitting heat. | |
| ▲ | drowsspa 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's not how it works. Two bodies are in thermal equilibrium if there's no heat transfer between them: that's the zeroth law of thermodynamics. If you're colder than 2.73K in deep space, you will absorb the heat from the Cosmic Microwave Background. If you're hotter, you will irradiate heat away. So it does have a temperature. | | |
| ▲ | OscarCunningham 7 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Does this mean that if Earth stays a fixed distance from the sun then its equilibrium temperature is fixed? I remember people saying things like that the albedo of the ice caps affected the Earth's temperature. |
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| ▲ | aqme28 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Well it isn't a perfect vacuum and it does have a temperature. But temperature is only a part of the story, just like how you go hypothermic a lot faster in 50 degree water than in 50 degree air. | |
| ▲ | 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | ZeroGravitas 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I saw a news personality say that space is cold and that solves a big problem with datacenters as justification for why it made sense. | | |
| ▲ | iancmceachern 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | Space is cold because there isn't anything there. There is also no matter to wick the heat away. |
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| ▲ | emkoemko 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | but if you did use thermometer in space it would eventual read 2.73 kelvin right? so whats the issue? and also for a space based server it would have to deal with the energy coming from the sun | | |
| ▲ | iancmceachern 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes and no. If you had a thermometer that had no heat generation then yes. If you have a resistor or other heat generating circuit then you need to have the needed surface area to radiate the heat away. If you don't, it will heat up. It's a rate problem. | |
| ▲ | iancmceachern 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There is no matter. It's cold there because there isn't anything there. So there is nothing to conduct or convect the heat away. It's like a giant vacuum insulated thermos. Is putting data centers in thermos' a good idea? | | |
| ▲ | emkoemko 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | i am not saying its a good idea, just wondering because you say space has no temperature, but that makes no sense for the reason CMB radiation would prevent you from having 0 k right? and in fact how would you even measure it? wouldn't the measuring device its self have way more then 0K? plus you would have to insulate the servers from the sun...then have radiators like the ISS... i think its just way easier to run a server on the ground | | |
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| ▲ | legohead 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | what thermometer would you use to measure the temperature of space? | | |
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| ▲ | guluarte 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm not a scientist but i am also sure it will be fucking hard to dissipate heat in a vacuum |
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