| ▲ | GOG: Linux "the next major frontier" for gaming as it works on a native client(xda-developers.com) |
| 147 points by franczesko 3 hours ago | 75 comments |
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| ▲ | emsign an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| I'm very hopeful that Linux gaming will save the open PC desktop despite big tech is coming to destroy it. Or at least keep PCs alive for another decade. Gamers are still a huge factor as hardware customers. GOG creating a Linux launcher and Steam Box with SteamOS coming out soon should benefit PC users in general not just gamers since Microslop sees Windows like a social experiment where they can test AI on unsuspecting lusers, as an ad platform and a store front now. |
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| ▲ | canpan 34 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Steam developing proton was what made it possible for me to change fully. No dual boot or anything needed. It's great. Funnily I also run GoG games through steam proton..
But looking forward to the GoG client working! |
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| ▲ | EspadaV9 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| No. Please don't. Contribute to something like Heroic Launcher instead. Don't create something new just for GOG. Help make the existing tools better. It'll mean GOG has to do less work, and the programs people are already using will get better. Or even just sponsor Heroic so they can send more time we can working on it themselves. |
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| ▲ | MaulingMonkey 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > It'll mean GOG has to do less work [citation needed] GOG's launcher team is presumably already familiar with their codebase, already has a checkout, already has a codebase that's missing 0 features, has a user interface that already matches their customer's muscle memory, and presumably already has semi-decent platform abstraction layer, considering they have binaries for both Windows and OS X. Unless they've utterly botched their PAL and buried it under several mountains of technical debt, porting is probably going to be relatively straightforward. I'm not giving Linux gaming a second shot merely because of a bunch of ancedata about proton and wine improvements - I'm giving it a second shot because Steam themselves have staked enough of their brand and reputation on the experience, and put enough skin in the game with official linux support in their launcher. While I don't have enough of a GOG library for GOG's launcher to move the needle on that front for me personally, what it might do is get me looking at the GOG storefront again - in a way that some third party launcher simply wouldn't. Epic? I do have Satisfactory there, Heroic Launcher might be enough to avoid repurchasing it on Steam just for Linux, but it's not enough to make me want to stop avoiding Epic for future purchases on account of poor Linux support. | |
| ▲ | gamesieve an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | They're not creating something new. They're taking their existing tool (which - for all its flaws - is still far ahead of Heroic in many ways), improving it further, and changing it to also work on Linux. If they then go add additional features like wine integration to that tool to make it overlap more with Heroic is something we're all assuming, but not actually a given. | | |
| ▲ | bravetraveler an hour ago | parent [-] | | A lot of words for "yes they will insist on fragmentation" | | |
| ▲ | freehorse 29 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Compiling their own tool for linux (ie advancing cross-platform support) is not "fragmentation". | | |
| ▲ | bravetraveler 27 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Disagree, but that's fine. Only so many users, attention, etc. Heroic will probably see degradation. They're entirely welcome to do this, I just think there's room for more opportunity with combined/open effort. Idealistic? Sure. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that doing nothing remains an option. | | |
| ▲ | freehorse 24 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Obligatory xkcd https://xkcd.com/927/ | | |
| ▲ | bravetraveler 20 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Exactly, competition among standards. Good and bad, I'm exhausted from such a diverse userspace. The fragmentation argument goes back to the creation of 'init'. Cheapshot: Good Old Games (as long as our proprietary software functions) | | |
| ▲ | johnnyanmac 11 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The issue here is that this is an existing "standard", by the logic of the comic. I wouldn't be surprised if there were already unofficial Linux ports of this launcher to begin with. Also, even if it was fragmentation I'd prefer competition to ensue. I don't want another Steam situation, even if in theory a launcher isn't holding any valuable data hostage. | | |
| ▲ | bravetraveler 7 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Eh, I don't need the comic to be a perfect fit. It's not a port, but Heroic is an implementation of the GOG ~standard~ store as a Linux user. I will use it until I can't. Why? Precisely because of what you say: I don't want another Steam. Heroic does others like Epic, too; open consolidation like this is my ideal. |
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| ▲ | anonymous908213 43 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Linux userspace is defined by fragmentation. Linux users can't even unify on a distro, such that significant swathes of software are incompatible for some users despite everyone using the same kernel. In that environment, and also just in general, why is anybody obligated to contribute to a specific existing project rather than building their own? | | |
| ▲ | saidinesh5 18 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | As much as i hate the pointless Linux fragmentation, I think them going down the path of steam/heroic games launcher and releasing one appimage/.deb file and letting others take on the burden for their distros should do. | |
| ▲ | StopDisinfo910 5 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | I mean, the main issue with portability is the insistance on dynamic linking, far more than the distro situation. If you use Linux like MacOS and only run static binaries and containerized programs via things like flatpak everything is fine. It's totally possible to treat the distro simply as a thin base layer and get everything else from flatpak and the various container hubs. It does work great. |
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| ▲ | dandellion an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If you see it form the point of view of a Linux user it's more fragmentation, but if you look at it from the point of view of a gamer it's less fragmentation. Guess who their target audience is? | | | |
| ▲ | OrangeRange an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Everyone in the linux world insists on fragmentation, though? It's a part of what makes it great and a mess at the same time. And what of it? Every time a for profit company uses open source they'll either create a closed fork, and if they can't they'll create closed source modules for it. I'm not saying it's bad to wish for companies to support FOSS, I'm just saying it's an unrealistic expectation to have. | | |
| ▲ | keyringlight 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | The impression I've had for a long while now is that just as the software side is fragmented so is the userbase in what they want, including a segment that want one true way and all that fragmentation to go away. The trouble I see with catering to all that variation is it's putting an onus for more work on the developer (which needs funding from somewhere, most likely the publisher) and while linux (and GOG) is a niche market in the present and near term it doesn't seem like a winning proposition. There's definitely a desire for an appliance/console like experience where all the complexity is hidden behind install/play buttons, and steam has got most of the way there. As protondb shows that can't go all the way and tweaking is needed owing to the shifting PC compatibility in general and running software from one OS on a different one, it's the nature of the beast. | |
| ▲ | bravetraveler an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | ... and I'm concurring with the threadstarter. They could do nothing, donate to Heroic, or this. I'm not invested in this, just raised a keyword. The arguments are tired, the word serves us well. They insist, yes, and forever remain hopeful that This Might Be the Year. Meanwhile, the reality exists for plenty already. |
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| ▲ | m-schuetz 26 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Why would they join another project that's worse than their own solution, over which they have full controll? | | |
| ▲ | bravetraveler 25 minutes ago | parent [-] | | So many replies. Hello everyone. Beats me, just commenting as someone who won't pivot to the new thing. Outcomes matter, etc. Supporting Heroic would appear on-brand given their old game/archival messaging, but I'm not doing marketing for free. |
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| ▲ | gr4vityWall an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Alternatively, work on developing protocols for game launchers instead. Get the Heroic Launcher devs and devs from other launchers to work on a common interface. | |
| ▲ | account42 18 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Agreed, I don't want yet another launcher. And as the underdog it even makes sense for GOG to fully embrace cross-store launchers. | |
| ▲ | surgical_fire 18 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Meh, I use Lutris instead of Heroic. I am happy that GoG will finally make its launcher available to Linux. |
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| ▲ | kleiba a minute ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Geez, that headline was hard to parse. |
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| ▲ | easyThrowaway an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Hopefully they'll somehow support Proton and Valve devices. Trying to run older windows-only games bought on GOG with launchers like Heroic is a bit of a hit or miss, despite the Steam releases of the same games having somehow a bigger chance of working out of the box. I guess there are some weird differences between the default Proton Runtime and the proton-ge/wine-ge builds. |
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| ▲ | prmoustache an hour ago | parent [-] | | If you have steam installed on the same machine, you can use proton runtimes from steam already. |
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| ▲ | delaminator an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I always make sure to not use the GoG downloader just download the game. I don't need a client with your branding all over it, that has socials and my library and all engagement bait like that. I figure it's one step away from putting the DRM back on so you have to use the launcher to get a game from GOG. Just let me buy games and then shut up. |
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| ▲ | Kim_Bruning an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| On the upside, this might mean I'll buy more stuff from GOG again. Steam+Proton is just so darn convenient. |
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| ▲ | alex_duf an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| A lot of hate in the comments, I think it's great that companies are in a position where they think it makes sense financially to support Linux as a target platform. |
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| ▲ | kaoD an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | They're just trying to ride the wave of Valve's deck (and they will fail). The fact is that, since I bought the Steam Deck, I bought less from GOG and more from Valve. And this won't change a thing: it doesn't matter if they make a Linux-native frontend to the horrible GOG Galaxy. I just want my games to launch as seamlessly as they do from Valve's UI, not yet another launcher that I have to launch on top of Valve's system UI. I am already doing that with Heroic Games Launcher, which is far better than whatever they will concoct in-house and supports many other stores. | |
| ▲ | pjc50 40 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | I think this is a good lesson in why companies don't try to bring stuff to Linux: the market is incredibly resentful of products. |
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| ▲ | thrownawaysz 25 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >Competitive Salary – We ensure fair and attractive compensation that reflects your skills and experience: 18 000 - 27 000 PLN/month I know it's eastern Europe but that's $5000-7500 a month, barely $90k a year. It sounds like a solo job too so a lot of responsibility for this salary. |
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| ▲ | plqbfbv 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | That's in the 50k EUR - 77k EUR range which is senior-level pay in EU. Add to that it includes pension, tax prepayments and health insurance. They also seem to offer lots of perks in the office. If you account for the fact that Poland is generally less expensive than the average and that the average monthly living cost is ~900 EUR ( https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?cou... ), even the 50k lower bracket is in the higher range. You get ~2k EUR net/month in your account after pension and tax contributions, health insurance, rent and expenses (as a single). That's not bad at all. | |
| ▲ | delta_p_delta_x 12 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > $90k a year. $90K a year goes much further in most of Europe barring the centres of the biggest cities—let alone eastern Europe—than it does in the US. NYC and Bay Area salaries are outrageously inflated, with much of the take-home being funnelled into four/five digit rents or mortgages for houses built out of matchsticks, car loans, health insurance payments, and more. None of this is necessary or costs as much in most of Europe, or the rest of the world, really. | |
| ▲ | p4bl0 5 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The standard of living is higher in France than in eastern Europe, and even in France that's considered a high salary. | |
| ▲ | trwired 5 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's a very livable wage in Poland. The wages are significantly lower, but so are the costs of living. | |
| ▲ | lewispollard 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yeah that's a good salary in Europe. It's only slightly less than I make in the UK as a senior. | |
| ▲ | isbvhodnvemrwvn 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Welcome to Europe! | |
| ▲ | tokai 23 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | US devs are vastly over payed. |
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| ▲ | anthonj 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That's very nice to hear.
But diffuclt to beat valve here, they are actively contributing to drivers and wine. When you buy even just windows software from steam you are helping funding that. |
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| ▲ | l0b0 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| "GOG GALAXY is a long-lived product with a large and complex C++ codebase." Also known as a shitshow. Hopefully the new engineer(s) will be encouraged to at least add some tests and refactor things to stay sane. No mention of a license, though. I guess it'll stay closed source. |
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| ▲ | thaumasiotes 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > I guess it'll stay closed source. It's a DRM implementation. It has to stay closed source. | | |
| ▲ | bpye 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There is no DRM on GOG. https://www.gog.com/blog/what-exactly-is-drm-in-video-games-... | | |
| ▲ | PunchyHamster an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I guess depends what you consider DRM, some games appear to have problems https://www.gog.com/wishlist/site/label_the_games_that_have_... | |
| ▲ | account42 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | And we have always been at war with Eurasia. | |
| ▲ | krige 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Last I checked, there is loads of DRM on GOG and most of the games that have it, force you to use Galaxy. | | |
| ▲ | gamesieve an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Many games with multiplayer features require Galaxy for those multiplayer features. You can consider this DRM-equivalent if you want. However, every singleplayer game on GOG will work without Galaxy installed, and that singleplayer gameplay will be completely DRM-free in every possible way. (That's at least 99.6% of the games on GOG, but eyeballing the 22 games which don't specify that they're singleplayer games, most of them simply have incomplete metadata, so it's really 99.9% of them.) | |
| ▲ | tommica an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Really? What games are those? I've not encountered a single one :/ | | |
| ▲ | krige an hour ago | parent [-] | | Off the top of my head Crime Cities on launch forced me to use Galaxy to play it. I vividly remember this because the game also ran like complete crap. | | |
| ▲ | gamesieve an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Galaxy can be required for multiplayer aspects in games, but if what you say is true for the singleplayer part of the game, GOG will consider it a bug, and will get it fixed. There's nothing in the Crime Cities GOG forum about this, nor in the various tracking threads in the main forum, and generally GOG users are extremely sensitive about anything which even reeks of forcing Galaxy, so I'd strongly expect any issue to be known. I've seen cases where the developer implemented a bad online check, so that if you blocked the program from accessing the internet while the OS reported being online, the game would hang or crash, but being fully offline would work. Could it be that something like that was at play here? Oh, or that you simply picked the wrong installer for the game, and thus ran the Galaxy-installer rather than the offline installer? | | |
| ▲ | Springtime an hour ago | parent [-] | | I think too it can be misleading since on Windows the default LNK shortcut that is created after the game installation launches Galaxy with arguments instead of being a path to the direct game EXE (which works entirely without Galaxy and how I run games). They do this to push Galaxy for convenience I suppose as most are used to clients that handle updates but it can be confusing if some wonder why for instance their offline installer shortcut opened Galaxy instead. | | |
| ▲ | gamesieve 36 minutes ago | parent [-] | | If the wine experience is anything to go by, if you don't have Galaxy installed at all, the shortcuts will also just point to the .exe - but yeah, I suspect it must be something like this. |
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| ▲ | gamesieve 37 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | I had Crime Cities lying around since it was a freebie on GOG many years ago, so I just went ahead and installed it using vanilla wine. There was absolutely no Galaxy requirement for installing or playing the single player part of the game. |
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| ▲ | da_grift_shift 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yet the standalone offline installed games won't run without libgalaxy.dylib (Mac) or Galaxy64.dll (Windows) which is responsible for outbound connections to https://galaxy-log.gog.com and https://insights-collector.gog.com? To be clear: if you buy Disco Elysium on GOG, download the "offline game installer" without using Galaxy, install it, and run the game on a desert island, it will work (the network requests fail open). But if you try to run the game after removing the bundled dylib/DLL, it will not. Why do Galaxy-free games ship with a mandatory dependency on Galaxy? | |
| ▲ | stavros 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Famously so. The main method of deployment was an offline installer before they made Galaxy, and AFAIK Galaxy just downloads and runs the installer. | | |
| ▲ | gamesieve an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Not quite. You can use Galaxy to download the offline installers (or just do that through the website), but when you install a game through Galaxy, it downloads a special build which it just copies to the right location, without running a separate installer. | |
| ▲ | KptMarchewa an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | No, it doesn't use offline installers. Source: worked on that in the past. https://content-system.gog.com/ | |
| ▲ | thaumasiotes an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | The running game can also call out to Galaxy and unlock, or not unlock, ingame content based on what it hears back. It's pretty difficult to imagine a definition of "digital rights management" that doesn't include this. | | |
| ▲ | CopperWing 21 minutes ago | parent [-] | | As far as I remember, the only games which optionally need Galaxy running are those will online multiplayer, and only if you want to play online. This is because the original developers shutdown their own servers for matchmaking or originally used Steam servers for that. GOG servers are only replacing those. | | |
| ▲ | gamesieve 14 minutes ago | parent [-] | | There are also a handful of games which put some additional purely cosmetic content behind an online check. That could be the start of a slippery slope, which people are justly upset about, but they then do an injustice to their cause by generalizing from those cases. | | |
| ▲ | account42 3 minutes ago | parent [-] | | It's not a slippery slope but already full blown DRM plain and simple. Both online functionality limited to GOG-run servers and checks for cosmetic content. |
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| ▲ | falcor84 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Why? Can't DRM be implemented in open source, and only have private keys kept secret? | | |
| ▲ | elsjaako an hour ago | parent [-] | | If we have DRM with some private key, then I guess your idea is I download the game files and some private key and that allows me to run the game. If I can send you the private key and the game and it allows you to run the game with no further inputs, then the DRM is trivially broken (even without open source). If it does some online check, then if the source is open we can easily make a version that bypasses the online check. If there is some check on the local PC (e.g. the key only works if some hardware ID is set correctly), we can easily find out what it checks, capture that information, package it, and make a new version of the launcher that uses this packaged data instead of the real machine data. If you use a private key to go online and retrieve more data, having it be open source makes it trivial to capture that data, package it, and write a new version of the launcher that uses that packaged data. Basically, DRM requires that there is something that is not easy to copy, and it being open source makes it a lot easier to copy. | | |
| ▲ | Borealid 13 minutes ago | parent [-] | | How would you define it if: - the DRM/delivery software is open source - the game payload is sent to you encrypted using the public key of a secure enclave on your computer - while the game runs all its memory is symmetrically encrypted (by your own CPU) using a key private to that secure enclave. It is only decrypted in the CPU's cache lines, which are flushed when the core runs anything other than the game (even OS code) - the secure enclave refuses to switch to the context in which the CPU is allowed to use the decryption key unless a convolution-only (not overwriteable with arbitrary values) register inside itself had the correct value - the convolution-only register is written with the "wrong" value, by your own computer's firmware, if you use a bootloader that is not trusted by the DRM system to disallow faking the register (ie, you need secure boot and a trusted OS) That doesn't seem to fit in any of your models. There's no online check, you can't send someone else the key because it's held in hostile-to-you hardware, you can't bypass the local-PC check because it's entirely opaque to you (even the contents of RAM are encrypted). You can crack into a CPU itself I guess? I don't think the mechanism of the DRM being open source helps with the copying AT ALL in this design. This design is, by the way, quite realistic: most modern CPUs support MK-TME (encrypted RAM mediated by a TPM) and all Windows 11 PCs have a TPM. Companies just haven't gotten there yet. |
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| ▲ | KwanEsq 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | This is factually incorrect. GOG famously has no DRM. | | |
| ▲ | thaumasiotes an hour ago | parent [-] | | Try checking on the facts first. GOG famously has a slogan that says they have no DRM. They are lying in their slogan. |
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| ▲ | indolering an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Why is the launcher not at least public source? GOG's value add is the service it provides, not the specialness of its launcher. Hopefully they will pursue a container/Flatpak native system but probably not! |
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| ▲ | nottorp 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| New owner means their disgust of Linux is fading. |
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| ▲ | pjmlp 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Thankfully it seems to be not yet another Electron crap shell. |
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| ▲ | Anonyneko an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | In my experience, Galaxy works no better than a web app, unfortunately. Similarly laggy and lacks the snappiness you'd normally associate with a native app. | | | |
| ▲ | KptMarchewa an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's not Electron, however it uses Chromium Embedded Framework underneath. | | |
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