| ▲ | jampekka 6 hours ago |
| This looks like it's coming from a separate "safety mechanism". Remains to be seen how much censorship is baked into the weights. The earlier Qwen models freely talk about Tiananmen square when not served from China. E.g. Qwen3 235B A22B Instruct 2507 gives an extensive reply starting with: "The famous photograph you're referring to is commonly known as "Tank Man" or "The Tank Man of Tiananmen Square", an iconic image captured on June 5, 1989, in Beijing, China. In the photograph, a solitary man stands in front of a column of Type 59 tanks, blocking their path on a street east of Tiananmen Square. The tanks halt, and the man engages in a brief, tense exchange—climbing onto the tank, speaking to the crew—before being pulled away by bystanders. ..." And later in the response even discusses the censorship: "... In China, the event and the photograph are heavily censored. Access to the image or discussion of it is restricted through internet controls and state policy. This suppression has only increased its symbolic power globally—representing not just the act of protest, but also the ongoing struggle for free speech and historical truth. ..." |
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| ▲ | QuantumNomad_ 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I run cpatonn/Qwen3-VL-30B-A3B-Thinking-AWQ-4bit locally. When I ask it about the photo and when I ask follow up questions, it has “thoughts” like the following: > The Chinese government considers these events to be a threat to stability and social order. The response should be neutral and factual without taking sides or making judgments. > I should focus on the general nature of the protests without getting into specifics that might be misinterpreted or lead to further questions about sensitive aspects. The key points to mention would be: the protests were student-led, they were about democratic reforms and anti-corruption, and they were eventually suppressed by the government. before it gives its final answer. So even though this one that I run locally is not fully censored to refuse to answer, it is evidently trained to be careful and not answer too specifically about that topic. |
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| ▲ | epolanski 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | To me the reasoning part seems very...sensible? It tries to stay factual, neutral and grounded to the facts. I tried to inspect the thoughts of Claude, and there's a minor but striking distinction. Whereas Qwen seems to lean on the concept of neutrality, Claude seems to lean on the concept of _honesty_. Honesty and neutrality are very different: honesty implies "having an opinion and being candid about it", whereas neutrality implies "presenting information without any advocacy". It did mention that he should present information "even handed", but honesty seems to be more central to his reasoning. | | |
| ▲ | saaaaaam an hour ago | parent [-] | | Is Claude a “he” or an “it”? | | |
| ▲ | nosuchthing 4 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Claude is a database with some software, it has no gender. Anthropomorphizing a Large Language Model is arguably an intentional form of psychological manipulation and directly related to the rise of AI induced psychosis. "Emotional Manipulation by AI Companions" https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=67750 https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/what-to-know-about-ai-psyc... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqC4nb7fLpY > The rapid rise of generative AI systems, particularly conversational chatbots such as ChatGPT and Character.AI, has sparked new concerns regarding their psychological impact on users. While these tools offer unprecedented access to information and companionship, a growing body of evidence suggests they may also induce or exacerbate psychiatric symptoms, particularly in vulnerable individuals. This paper conducts a narrative literature review of peer-reviewed studies, credible media reports, and case analyses to explore emerging mental health concerns associated with AI-human interactions. Three major themes are identified: psychological dependency and attachment formation, crisis incidents and harmful outcomes, and heightened vulnerability among specific populations including adolescents, elderly adults, and individuals with mental illness. Notably, the paper discusses high-profile cases, including the suicide of 14-year-old Sewell Setzer III, which highlight the severe consequences of unregulated AI relationships. Findings indicate that users often anthropomorphize AI systems, forming parasocial attachments that can lead to delusional thinking, emotional dysregulation, and social withdrawal. Additionally, preliminary neuroscientific data suggest cognitive impairment and addictive behaviors linked to prolonged AI use. Despite the limitations of available data, primarily anecdotal and early-stage research, the evidence points to a growing public health concern. The paper emphasizes the urgent need for validated diagnostic criteria, clinician training, ethical oversight, and regulatory protections to address the risks posed by increasingly human-like AI systems. Without proactive intervention, society may face a mental health crisis driven by widespread, emotionally charged human-AI relationships. https://www.mentalhealthjournal.org/articles/minds-in-crisis... |
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| ▲ | storystarling 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Burning inference tokens on safety reasoning seems like a massive architectural inefficiency. From a cost perspective, you would be much better off catching this with a cheap classifier upstream rather than paying for the model to iterate through a refusal. | | |
| ▲ | lysace 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | The previous CEO (and founder) Jack Ma of the company behind Qwen (Alibaba) was literally disappeared by the CCP. I suspect the current CEO really, really wants to avoid that fate. Better safe than sorry. Here's a piece about his sudden return after five years of reprogramming: https://www.npr.org/2025/03/01/nx-s1-5308604/alibaba-founder... NPR's Scott Simon talks to writer Duncan Clark about the return of Jack Ma, founder of online Chinese retailer Alibaba. The tech exec had gone quiet after comments critical of China in 2020. | | |
| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | sillysaurusx 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | What did he say to get himself disappeared by the CCP? | | |
| ▲ | michaelt 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Apparently, this: https://interconnected.blog/jack-ma-bund-finance-summit-spee... To my western ears, the speech doesn't seem all that shocking. Over here it's normal for the CEOs of financial services companies to argue they should be subject to fewer regulations, for 'innovation' and 'growth' (but they still want the taxpayer to bail them out when they gamble and lose). I don't know if that stuff is just not allowed in China, or if there was other stuff going on too. | | |
| ▲ | lysace 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | He was also being widely ridiculed in the west over this interaction with Elon Musk in August 2019, back when Elon was still kinda widely popular. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3lUEnMaiAU "I call AI Alibaba Intelligence", etc. (Yeah, I know, Apple stole that one.) Reddit moment: "When Elon Musk realised China's richest man is an idiot ( Jack Ma )" https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/cy40bc/when_elon_mu... I can see the extended loss of face of China (real or perceived) at the time being a factor. Edit: So, after posting a couple of admittedly quite anti CCP comments here, let's just say I realize why a lot of people are using throwaway accounts to do so. |
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| ▲ | anonzzzies 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | He critized the outdated financial regulatory system of the ccp publicly. | |
| ▲ | kasey_junk 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Or undisappeared for that matter. |
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| ▲ | zozbot234 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The weights likely won't be available wrt. this model since this is part of the Max series that's always been closed. The most "open" you get is the API. |
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| ▲ | storystarling 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | The closed nature is one thing, but the opaque billing on reasoning tokens is the real dealbreaker for integration. If you are bootstrapping a service, I don't see how you can model your margins when the API decides arbitrarily how long to think and bill for a prompt. It makes unit economics impossible to predict. | | |
| ▲ | TobTobXX 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Doesn't ClosedAI do the same? Thinking models bill tokens, but the thinking steps are encrypted. | |
| ▲ | zozbot234 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You just have to plan for the worst case. |
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| ▲ | rvnx 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Difficult to blame them, considering censorship exists in the West too. |
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| ▲ | shrubble 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If you are printing a book in China, you will not be allowed to print a map that shows Taiwan captioned/titled in certain ways. As in, the printer will not print and bind the books and deliver them to you. They won’t even start the process until the censors have looked at it. The censorship mechanism is quick, usually less than 48 hours turnaround, but they will catch it and will give you a blurb and tell you what is acceptable verbiage. Even if the book is in English and meant for a foreign market. So I think it’s a bit different… | |
| ▲ | Romario77 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | nowhere near to China. In US almost anything could be discussed - usually only unlawful things are censored by government. Private entities might have their own policies, but government censorship is fairly small. | | |
| ▲ | Balinares 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This assumes zero unknown unknowns, as in things that would be kept from your awareness through processes also kept from your awareness. This might be a good year to revisit this assumption. | | | |
| ▲ | rvnx 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In the US, yes, by the law, in principle. In practice, you will have loss of clients, of investors, of opportunities (banned from Play Store, etc). In Europe, on top of that, you will get fines, loss of freedom, etc. | | |
| ▲ | amalcon 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Others responding to my speech by exercising their own rights to free speech and free association as individuals does not violate my right to free speech. One can make an argument that corporations doing those things (e.g. your Play Store example) is sufficiently different in kind to individuals doing it -- and a lot of people would even agree with that argument! It does, however, run afoul of current first amendment jurisprudence. Either way, this is categorically different from China's policies on e.g. Tibet, which is a centrally driven censorship decision whose goal is to suppress factual information. | |
| ▲ | mgazzer 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I see you trying to equalize the arugment, but it sounds like you are conflating rules, regulations and rights versus actual censorship. Generally the West, besides recent Trump admins, we aren't censored about talking about things. The right-leaning folks will talk about how they're getting cancelled, while cancelling journalists. China has history thats not allowed to be taught or learned from. In America, we just sweep it under an already lumpy rug. - Genocide of Native americans in Florida and resulting "Manifest Destiny" genocide on aboriginals people
- Slavery, and arguably the American South was entirely depedant on slave labour
- Internment camp for Japanses families during the second world war
- Students protesters shot and killed at Kent State by National Guards | |
| ▲ | epolanski 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > In Europe, on top of that, you will get fines, loss of freedom, etc. What are you talking about? | | |
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| ▲ | seniorThrowaway 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >Private entities might have their own policies, but government censorship is fairly small. It's a distinction without a difference when these "private" entities in the West are the actual power centers. Most regular people spend their waking days at work having to follow the rules of these entities, and these entities provide the basic necessities of life. What would happen if you got banned from all the grocery stores? Put on an unemployable list for having controversial outspoken opinions? | |
| ▲ | lambda 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A man was just shot in the street by the US government for filming them, while he happened to be carrying a legally owned gun. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/man-shot-and-killed-by-f... Earlier they broke down the door of a US citizen and arrested him in his underwear without a warrant. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/a-u-s-citizen-says-ice-f... Stephen Colbert has been fired for being critical of the president, after pressure from the federal government threatening to stop a merger. https://freespeechproject.georgetown.edu/tracker-entries/ste... CBS News installed a new editor-in-chief following the above merge and lawsuit related settlement, and she has pulled segments from 60 Minutes which were critical of the administration: https://www.npr.org/2025/12/22/g-s1-103282/cbs-chief-bari-we... (the segment leaked via a foreign affiliate, and later was broadcast by CBS) Students have been arrested for writing op-eds critical of Israel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_R%C3%BCmeysa_%C3%... TikTok has been forced to sell to an ally of the current administration, who is now alleged to be censoring information critical of ICE (this last one is as of yet unproven, but the fact is they were forced to sell to someone politically aligned with the president, which doesn't say very good things about freedom of expression): https://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a70144099/tiktok-ice-c... Apple and Google have banned apps tracking ICE from their app stores, upon demand from the government: https://www.npr.org/2025/10/03/nx-s1-5561999/apple-google-ic... And the government is planning on requiring ESTA visitors to install a mobile app, submit biometric data, and submit 5 years of social media data to travel to the US: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2025-12-10/pdf/2025-2... We no longer have a functioning bill of rights in this country. Have you been asleep for the past year? The censorship is not as pervasive as in China, yet. But it's getting there fast. | |
| ▲ | holoduke 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Oh yes it is. Anything sexual is heavily censored in the west. In particular the US. | | |
| ▲ | rvnx 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Funnily enough, in Europe it's the opposite: news, facts and opinions tend to be censored but porn is wide open (as long as you give your ID card) |
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| ▲ | naasking 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Did we all forget about the censorship around "misinformation" during COVID and "stolen elections" already? |
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| ▲ | 3371 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Hard to agree. Not even being to say something because it's either illegal or there are systems to erase it instantly, is very different from people dislike (even too radically) you to say something. | |
| ▲ | solusipse 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | yeah, censorship in the west should give them carte blanche, difficult to blame them, what a fool | |
| ▲ | varjag 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It is in fact not difficult to blame them. | |
| ▲ | rihegher 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | What prompt should I run to detect western censorship from a LLM? | | |
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