| ▲ | dgacmu 5 hours ago |
| It gets studied. EVs are often heavier, which is worse for tire wear, but use regenerative braking, which is better for brake dust. Overall, EVs are likely a net win on the combination of these two things, and a big win on exhaust emissions, but it would be nice if we could shift to lighter and smaller vehicles and increase the mix of non-cars such as e-bikes and mass transit. Source: https://www.eiturbanmobility.eu/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/4... |
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| ▲ | kalaksi 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| ICE cars also require large and heavy trucks to transport fuel around constantly. |
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| ▲ | jbm 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This will be met with consternation, not appreciation. The people who comment about brake dust in EV topics are the people who complain about birds when talking about windmills. We know it is disingenuous because no one cares about this when discussing overweight trucks and SUVs. Good news about a reduction in pollution from EVs? Can't have that. It's like the "At what price" meme around headlines about China. Going forward, I will downvote any comment about "brake pollution" and "tire pollution" that does not begin with - specifically - "This is a bigger issue for large, gas-powered trucks and SUVs", and invite you all to do so to. The association of these shitty comments with EV topics is as organic as lighter fluid. |
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| ▲ | nostrebored 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Hi, I’m indeed the same person. I also hate oversized trucks. I’m generally against things that make the world worse for marginal benefits. The cybertruck clocks in at around the same weight as oversized trucks. Whenever I see people alone in either, I’m pretty annoyed. Semis for long haul are also annoying and we should substantially increase rail infra in the US | |
| ▲ | ilogik an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Isn't brake pollution a lot less with EVs? | |
| ▲ | lagniappe 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm the person who commented it and I don't appreciate your straw man here. | |
| ▲ | bruce511 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Please don't downvote comments because you don't agree with the argument. Downvotes should be for comments that add little to the discussion. I agree that discussing weight with regard to EVs, without acknowledging that (in the US) the fashion is for big heavy ICE cars is just as polluting is disingenuous. That said, outside the US the trend is for smaller cars, and equally the weight of a small EV is not hugely dissimilar to a common ICE car. Frankly I'm not sure there's a whole lot to say about tire dust- cars need tires. EVs generate less brake dust. If there's a tire dust discussion to be had, then that discussion is independent of the vehicle fuel source. |
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| ▲ | 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Plug-in hybrids are a wonderful middle point on the Pareto frontier. Wikipedia lists the 3rd-gen Prius Prime at roughly 3,500 pounds curb weight, and the Tesla Model Y at 4,100-4,600 pounds, I assume depending on the battery it's equipped with. The Prius Prime has 40+ miles of all-electric range, and it can reach highway speeds with the gas engine off. So your day-to-day driving is all electric, then you still have an engine for harsh winter days, power outages, and you have 600 miles EPA range on gas for sudden road trips. People are really sleeping on hybrids. Even a used non-plug-in Prius will get 50 city and 50 highway MPG. No gas sedan can do that. |
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| ▲ | ubertaco an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I looked into PHEVs on my last vehicle shopping go-round, since few pure EVs met my cargo size requirements (stroller/baby life is a whole thing). Ultimately, it was way more worth it to go all the way up to an F150 Lightning than to go with a good PHEV, partly due to up-front cost, but mostly due to ongoing cost: I will need to change the oil on the electric motors maybe every 150,000miles, and I never need an emissions test again. PHEVs require keeping the gas engine up, and getting it emissions-tested. A whole category of cost just straight-up disappeared, for cheaper than I could get a RAV4 Prime too. | |
| ▲ | jamescrowley 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Unfortunately most people's actual usage patterns for plug-in hybrids appear to make them worse than just a straight up ICE - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-... | |
| ▲ | rswail 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | PHEVs are a very interim solution. There are some advantages while range anxiety is an issue. Yes, EVs have a weight penalty of ~250-500kg of battery currently. Battery technology is rapidly advancing, when Na-ion batteries are introduced more widely, the whole range anxiety issue will become moot, because a recharge will take as long as refueling an ICE vehicle. The weight difference will also start to reduce, both due to newer batteries, but also moving to lighter weight construction and increased use of alternatives to steel. Arguing for ICE technology in 2025 is like Blackberry/Nokia users complaining about the loss of keyboards & T9 texting. | |
| ▲ | wilg 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Hybrids don't solve the main problem which is global warming, which demands zero carbon, not 50MPG gas cars. |
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| ▲ | margalabargala 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > but use regenerative braking, which is better for brake dust Which unfortunately also increases tire wear from regen braking during periods when an ICE vehicle would be coasting without braking. EVs are much (much much) better for CO2, much better for brake dust, and much worse for tire dust. |
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| ▲ | conk 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Braking from regen or braking from a brake pad has the same net impact on tire wear. EVs can coast too and don’t apply full regen the moment you apply brakes. Some even have brake coach alerts to get you to gradually apply the brakes to maximize energy return. | | |
| ▲ | margalabargala 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > EVs can coast too EVs could coast if a manufacturer chose to make one that allowed that without shifting into neutral. In practice, when letting off the accelerator, existing EVs will instead regen brake. | | |
| ▲ | loosescrews 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | The default setting just moves the coast point to a slightly depressed accelerator. This is because EVs typically have lower drag, so this behavior mimics a higher drag vehicle. If you use the accelerator to achieve the desired speed, you will coast when possible. You can also monitor the display to see the coast point. My 2013 plug in hybrid only supports this style of operation. Modern EVs have easy adjustment for this. The Hyundai/Kia EVs for example have shift style paddles for adjusting this on the fly which includes a mode for regen only when depressing the break pedal. |
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| ▲ | fafac 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The tires and their dust don't care whether you're braking by regen or friction. The reason there's more dust is from the increased weight of the EV not because of regen braking. You can coast in EV as well, that is not exclusive to ICE. | | |
| ▲ | margalabargala 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > The tires and their dust don't care whether you're braking by regen or friction. I'm aware. The point I'm making is that EVs apply more braking than ICE vehicles do, due to the specifics of the implementation of regen braking that all manufacturers have chosen. > You can coast in EV as well Not without literally putting it in neutral. If you just take your foot off the accelerator, any modern EV will apply some amount of regenerative braking. It's not really possible to hold the accelerator pedal at the exact position where you are not applying motor power but also have 0kW of regen braking, certainly for any extended period of time. If your point is that someone could make an EV to which regen braking contributes no more to tire wear than an ICE vehicle, you're correct. Unfortunately, no such EVs are currently manufactured. Even the ones that allow you to "turn off" regen braking will generally apply 1-2kW of regen if your foot is off the accelerator. | | |
| ▲ | tzs 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > I'm aware. The point I'm making is that EVs apply more braking than ICE vehicles do, due to the specifics of the implementation of regen braking that all manufacturers have chosen Hyundai and Kia EVs have a 5 level setting for what happens when you lift up on the accelerator, either partially or fully. At level 0 the regeneration is so low that I don't notice a difference between that and being in neutral. It slows down way less than an ICE does when not in neutral. > If you just take your foot off the accelerator, any modern EV will apply some amount of regenerative braking. It's not really possible to hold the accelerator pedal at the exact position where you are not applying motor power but also have 0kW of regen braking, certainly for any extended period of time. Tire wear is not a linear function of acceleration. Is there any reason to believe that variations from not being able to hold your foot perfectly steady, assuming you aren't have spasms, will be big enough and/or last long enough to make a non-trivial difference? | |
| ▲ | YZF 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | But ICE vehicles can be in engine breaking mode. You pretty much never "coast" (e.g. put the vehicle in neutral or hold the clutch in). I get what you're saying but it feels like it's way in the margin if an effect at all. Do you have some reference? People keep talking about tire wear but my model 3 tires (which are relatively high performance soft tires) aren't wearing any faster than the wear I used to get on my Subaru before. I just don't drive aggressively. Flooring the accelerator must be the big difference. I don't think the weight difference is that large, certainly compared to trucks. | | |
| ▲ | margalabargala 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | The amount of engine braking applied by an automatic transmission ICE vehicle when you take your foot off the gas is an order of magnitude less than the regen braking applied when you take your foot off the accelerator on your Model 3. Here's a reference for you: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/elect... | | |
| ▲ | magicalhippo 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | First off, my Renault Megane e-Tech has paddles that allow me to change the regen strength on the fly. I use it actively when driving. But anyway, I find I drive differently with an EV. I don't let off the throttle unless I want to slow down. If I want to coast, I just reduce my throttle input to where its coasting. |
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| ▲ | socialcommenter 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I tend to agree with your overall point, but if we're talking about a 1-2 kW of "standby" regen, surely the rolling resistance of any kind of vehicle is in the same ballpark anyway (source: it takes multiple people to push a broken down car). | | |
| ▲ | margalabargala 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | The bearings and whatnot that cause rolling resistance on an ordinary car also exist in EVs; this is 1-2kW on top of that, when the car is in Drive. Furthermore, it's common to use one pedal driving- it's generally much more than 1-2kW. |
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