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kherud 8 hours ago

One interesting detail: In previous years, Joscha Bach gave a talk on AI, consciousness, and related topics (see e.g. [0]). A similar talk was planned for this year as well, but after emails between him and Epstein were made public (see his comment on this in [1]), his talk was canceled. Instead, there appears to have been an event that critically addressed the situation [2]. Unfortunately it was not recorded. Did anyone attend? A discussion between Joscha and his critics would have been really interesting.

[0] https://media.ccc.de/v/38c3-self-models-of-loving-grace

[1] https://joscha.substack.com/p/on-the-jeffrey-epstein-affair

[2] https://events.ccc.de/congress/2025/hub/en/event/detail/tech...

anotheryou 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Well that discussion talk is not an open discourse about the situation...

He quoted what he believed was scientific evidence in a private conversation that became public, has comments on fashism being efficient are clearly anti-facist and believed to observe a gender stereotype. No matter if the facts were true, it should be possible to discuss such things (especially those you think are facts) in private without getting canceled. Even if they would play in to the hand of racism or sexism if made as public statements.

I found his appology a bit weak, but I also don't see his offense, despite the messages in public being offensive and possibly harmful.

viccis 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I think people have little patience lately for tolerating private discussion they find objectionable with Epstein.

lukan 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I think people have little patience (or rather fear) to engage with different points of view in general these days.

viccis 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think people have found out the hard way that the paradox of tolerance is real.

BoredPositron 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No tolerance for the intolerant.

lukan an hour ago | parent [-]

Can you show me, where exactly Joshua Bach stands for intolerance?

BoredPositron 41 minutes ago | parent [-]

You've read the email exchange with epstein?

How billions dieng to famine would be a good thing or culling the elderly and infirm?

Don't even know why I bother answering.

lukan 33 minutes ago | parent [-]

I read just parts of it. Can you link or explain what you mean here? I do not understand the connection to intolerance.

BoredPositron 29 minutes ago | parent [-]

It's linked right above in this chain. I am not going to discuss why killing people is intolerant. That's just silly even for hn standards.

lukan 17 minutes ago | parent [-]

You edited your post after I commented and there was nothing about killing there before. (Just something about haters)

Indeed not HN standards. And if Joshua said killing people is good, I am interested in a full quote.

2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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pantalaimon an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

He did have an anual talk beginning with 30C3

https://media.ccc.de/search?p=Joscha

looperhacks 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Assembly events like [2] are not recorded because they are largely self-organized and barely moderated (if at all).

lukan 2 hours ago | parent [-]

This one was moderated, though.

"The main part of the workshop consists of a moderated deliberative discussion with the audience."

I think it is a bit ironic, that Joshua got canceled because of a private conversation - and the debate about it is not recorded, so .. in effect people are more free to express their opinions without getting canceled.

Disapointing to me. Joshua seems to have points of views I find debatable (I don't know much about him) But canceling to not have to stand his opinions? That is very much against the hacker spirit to me and he is a smart guy who knows a lot about AI.

Alconicon 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Urgh wtf...

This meta discussion synopsis "Tech-Transcendentalism as Hypermodern Myth and Neofeudal Ideology [all creatures welcome]" feels like reading a rabit hole of a mountain.

I would have loved another talk from Joscha, the critisism is weirdly ignorant.

weinzierl 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

To add some context and to spare readers who, like me, know nothing about Joscha Bach and only little about Epstein from having to go through all the linked material:

The allegations do not appear to involve abuse or moral complicity with Epstein. Instead, they seem to focus on emails Bach exchanged with Epstein concerning IQ, race, and possibly sex. Bach denies these allegations of racism and sexism.

That is at least how I understand the material based on the provided links.

jtefera 6 hours ago | parent [-]

For context, this is the email exchange between Joscha and Epstein: https://www.jmail.world/thread/HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_026406?view=i... (original doc: https://epstein-emails.sfo3.digitaloceanspaces.com/docs/HOUS...).

7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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walls 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

"All of the people I know who were friends with this sociopathic child-trafficking pedophile told me he was reformed now" is certainly something to put out there.