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weinzierl 6 hours ago

If I read this correctly the gist is that it does not matter if you use heavy weights with few reps (common body builder wisdom) or lighter weights with more reps. As long as you always exercise to complete muscle fatigue you'll get the maximum for your genetics (which itself varies a lot).

rorytbyrne 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> heavy weights with few reps (common body builder wisdom)

It is strength training (not body builder) wisdom to use heavy weights with few reps. Hypertrophy (i.e. body builder) programmes usually call for 8-12 reps, which implies relatively low weights.

NooneAtAll3 5 hours ago | parent [-]

is "8-12" not "few" for you?

rorytbyrne 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Relatively speaking, no. Strength training (as opposed to hypertrophy) calls for fewer reps, around 5 per set.

Many people advise spending about a year doing more sets of fewer (~5) reps to build strength, and then switch to fewer sets of more reps (8-12) when you want to build muscle mass.

Point being, the idea of doing lighter weights until failure is already kind of there in body building wisdom.

SoftTalker 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

3-5 reps per set for powerlifting training. Competition lifts are a single rep.

throwaway6734 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

1-3 is few

toomuchtodo 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Can we replicate the process of reaching muscle fatigue/failure to spur muscle growth without the strength training or anabolic steroids? Think GLP-1RAs but for this specific biological pathway.

https://www.biopharmadive.com/news/lilly-terminate-obesity-t...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/...

toshinoriyagi 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Steroid use has been shown to increase muscle in untrained males by around 25-30% I believe, without adding any exercise. That doesn't accomplish too much. If you want any worthwhile results, you will still have to train, although the steroids produce significantly more results for the same investment.

allan_s 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My understanding is that anabolic steroid are somehow close to what you're thinking about? It's just that as anything taking a simple shortcut , it comes with unwanted effects

stuffn 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The reason no one has found a better way is because hypertrophy is because it’s well understood and there’s no “better” solution. mTOR is the primary hormone pathway.thy increase the adaptation ceiling by increasing RBC, reducing protein breakdown, etc. Thereby reducing rest needed, so mTOR is heavily unregulated.

This is one of the view places where “if we could we would” is the correct answer. There is so much money in the space of anabolic cheating, the clandestine scientists would’ve already developed it.

zemvpferreira 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’s worth noting that muscle is not all the same. If you’re just into bodybuilding then sure, proximity to failure is what matters. For athletics though, there still seems to be a big impact in the rep range you work in.

d-us-vb 5 hours ago | parent [-]

This. Muscles can be optimized for volume/endurance or power, or some balance between them. Taking legs as an example: Powerlifters obviously go for pure power, whereas runners need a bit of power but mostly endurance, whereas cyclists need more power than runners but more endurance than powerlifters.

All of these benefit from weight training, but depending on the sport, the programming will be very different.

allan_s 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I think I know where they're coming from as I used to have a similar wrong model. I thought strength = more muscle cells and endurance = just better heart/lungs to deliver oxygen and clear waste like CO2 and lactic acid.

Turns out muscle fibers mostly grow bigger rather than more numerous, and there are different fiber types (slow-twitch vs fast-twitch) that adapt based on how you train. So for the same muscle, an Ironman runner and a guy doing heavy low-rep squats will develop different fiber characteristics: you can't fully max out both.

I'm simplifying, but learning this changed a lot about how I understand exercise at the biological level.

bob1029 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's no way this works in practice. A lot of heavy lifting (maximums) is about neurology and mind-body training. You cannot develop the ability to deadlift 405lbs by spending 2 hours using a cable crossover machine every day. Picking up something that weighs 2x more than you do requires your brain to send an extremely strong, synchronized signal. This is something that takes a lot of practice to develop. You have to consistently push your maximum voluntary effort in order to expand this capacity.

toshinoriyagi 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There is a minimum weight you must use to create a training stimulus, but yes, you can increase your 1RM with higher-rep sets (again, to a limit, they can't be sets of 100, the weight is too light).

To increase your 1RM at the most optimal pace, yes you need to specifically train the movement so that you can benefit from improved technique and neurological adaptation. But if I do tricep, pec, and front delt isolation exercises at higher reps, to failure, and see significant hypertrophy in these muscles, my bench press will be stronger, other things constant.

jjj123 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Right, but this post is about hypertrophy (big muscles). Not about heavy lifts.

bob1029 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Well one thing can lead into the other over time. If you can lift 405 once, 315 for reps becomes pedestrian and 225 becomes boring. Lifting that much weight will turn you into a monster faster than if you had not pushed for that capacity. I've seen people who can treat a 225lb barbell as if it's unloaded and 100% of them look like dragon ball Z characters.

paulmooreparks 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Body mechanics, leverage, and neuro-muscular connection definitely come into play. I could deadlift 430lbs for reps at my peak, and I while I was no string bean, I also didn't look all that muscular compared to the other lifters at my gym. I have ridiculously long arms relative to my height and relatively shorter legs, which gives me an advantage for deadlift. I had monstrous-looking guys watch me lift and then ask me what stack I was on. They didn't believe me when I said I was natural.

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kace91 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It is actually common bodybuilder wisdom to go for the lighter version.

Stereotyping, weightlifters who go for max numbers do 1 set of a million pounds and rest three hours between exercises, while bodybuilders do thirty exercises a day for 8 series of 15 reps each.

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MattRix 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Unless I’m missing something, this has already been known, though the hypertrophic benefits start to reduce beyond 30 reps.