| ▲ | Fabrice Bellard: Biography (2009) [pdf](ipaidia.gr) |
| 238 points by lioeters 12 hours ago | 68 comments |
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| ▲ | poidos 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Publishing ffmpeg and QEMU in a five year span that also included winning IOCCC (twice!) is absolutely bonkers. |
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| ▲ | lioeters 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This biography includes more information than I've seen elsewhere about the legendary programmer, who's been discussed time and again on this forum. |
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| ▲ | chubot 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Without being glib, I honestly wonder if Fabrice Bellard has started using any LLM coding tools. If he could be even more productive, that would be scary! I doubt he is ideologically opposed to them, given his work on LLM compression [1] He codes mostly in C, which I'm sure is mostly "memorized". i.e. if you have been programming in C for a few decades, you almost certainly have a deep bench of your own code that you routinely go back to / copy and modify In most cases, I don't see an LLM helping there. It could be "out of distribution", similar to what Karpathy said about writing his end-to-end pedagogical LLM chatbot --- Now that I think of it, Bellard would probably train his own LLM on his own code! The rest of the world's code might not help that much :-) He has all the knowledge to do that ... I could see that becoming a paid closed-source project, like some of his other ones [2] [1] e.g. https://bellard.org/ts_zip/ [2] https://bellard.org/lte/ |
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| ▲ | latenightcoding 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | What I wonder is: are current LLMs even good for the type of work he does: novel, low-level, extremely performant | | |
| ▲ | vbezhenar 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm writing C for microcontrollers and ChatGPT is very good at it. I don't let it write any code (because that's the fun part, why would I), but I discuss with it a lot, asking questions, asking to review my code and he does good. I also love to use it to explain assembly. | |
| ▲ | mhh__ 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is a funny one because on the one hand the answer is obviously no, it's very fiddly stuff that requires a lot of umming and ahhing, but then weirdly they can be absurdly good in these kinds of highly technical domains precisely because they are often simple enough to pose to the LLM that any help it can give is actually applicable immediately whereas in a comparatively boring/trivial enterprise application there is a vast amount of external context to grapple with. | |
| ▲ | vitaminCPP 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | As a professional C programmer, the answer seems to be no; they are not good enough. | |
| ▲ | rjzzleep 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | From my experience, it's just good enough to give you a code overview of a codebase you don't know and give you enough implementation suggests to work from there. | |
| ▲ | wolttam 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If Fabrice explained what he wanted, I expect the LLM would respond in kind. | | |
| ▲ | vasco 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | If Fabrice explained what he wanted the LLM would say it's not possible. When the coding assistant LLMs load for a while it's because they are sending Fabrice an email and he corrects it and replies synchronously. |
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| ▲ | koakuma-chan 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | No | |
| ▲ | slekker 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I doubt it, although LLMs seem to do well on low-level (ASM level instructions). |
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| ▲ | MrDrMcCoy 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | He has in fact written one: https://bellard.org/ts_server/ | | |
| ▲ | chubot 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yeah I've seen that, but it looks like the inference-side only? Maybe that is a hint that he does use off-the-shelf models as a coding aid? There may be no need to train your own, on your own code, but it's fun to think about |
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| ▲ | rdtsc 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Without being glib, I honestly wonder if Fabrice Bellard has started using any LLM coding tools I doubt it. I follow him and look at the code he writes and it's well thought out and organized. It's the exact opposite of AI slop I see everywhere. > He codes mostly in C, which I'm sure is mostly "memorized". i.e. if you have been programming in C for a few decades, C I think he memorized a long time ago. It's more like he keeps the whole structure and setup of the program (the context) in his head and is able to "see it" all and operate on it. He is so good that people are insinuating he is actually "multiple people" or he uses an LLM and so on. I imagine he is quite amused reading those comments. | | |
| ▲ | MangoToupe 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Still, humans can only type so quickly. It's not hard to imagine how even a flawless coder could benefit from an llm. | | |
| ▲ | dmitrygr an hour ago | parent [-] | | > humans can only type so quickly Real programming is 0.1% typing. Typing speed is not a limiting factor for any serious development. | | |
| ▲ | MangoToupe an hour ago | parent [-] | | You're conflating typing with programming. Typing is in fact the limiting factor to serious development. | | |
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| ▲ | throwaway2037 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In 2025, there is no shame in using an LLM. For example, he might use it to get help debugging, or ask if a block of code can be written more clearly or efficiently. | |
| ▲ | agumonkey 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Some talented people (mitsuhiko, Evan you) seem to leverage LLM their own way. Probably as legwork mostly. | |
| ▲ | furbdiba 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Keep in mind even if someone writes their own code LLM is great to accelerate: tests, makefiles, docs, etc. Or it can review for any subtle bugs too. :) | |
| ▲ | raverbashing 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think it's the opposite: llms ask Fabrice Bellard instead | | |
| ▲ | jacquesm 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Congrats, the Chuck Norris meme has finally made its way onto HN. | | | |
| ▲ | echelon 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | They're trained on his code for sure. Every time I ask about ffmpeg internals, I know it's Fabrice's training data. |
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| ▲ | lomase 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Why every single post in HN has to come down to talk about AI sloop... | |
| ▲ | globalnode 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Is Fabrice like the Chuck Norris of programming? | | | |
| ▲ | gyomu 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > I honestly wonder if Fabrice Bellard has started using any LLM coding tools. If he could be even more productive, that would be scary! That’s kind of a weird speculation to make about creative people and their processes. If Caravaggio had had a computer with Photoshop, if Eintein had had a computer with Matlab, would they have been more productive? Is it a question that even makes sense? | | |
| ▲ | Kiro 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Is it a question that even makes sense? Absolutely. It's a very intriguing thought invoking the opposite of the point you're trying to make. | |
| ▲ | nextaccountic 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Maybe today Bellard uses LLMs though | |
| ▲ | lomase 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Matlab has been proven to be a indispensable tool in many fields. AI is the same, for example creating slop or virtual girlfriends. |
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| ▲ | speedgoose 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| He did a few things since, notably 5G base stations using PC hardware, and some LLM stuff. |
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| ▲ | cryptonector 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | And he wrote a proprietary ASN.1 compiler and stack. | | |
| ▲ | rvnx 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | It’s far from being impossible, the main thing you need is free time and obsession (and money for your free time btw). C or asm are not obscure languages or anything, they are brutal languages where you have to trace runtime from A to Z, and manage the memory. In 1990, it was absolutely normal to code in C. Yes you had to decode images yourself, yes you had to decode audio, yes you had to raytrace, etc. “Wait, you had to calculate all of these by hand ? Yes my friend everybody had to do that in my time, what else could we do ? So we took books, and did one by one. This was the norm, just that it became some sort of archeology.” Every year, thousands of 19-year-olds complete these tasks in low-level schools like Epita/Epita/42 or in demoscene contests. They aren't geniuses; they are just students who were forced to read the manual and understand how the computer actually works. Free time won’t guarantee you success, but free time + obsession will (like Terry Davis). Really, this is not alien tech. Before FFmpeg, people had to encode the videos. Before emulators someone had to create the state machine, etc. All these people it would be insane to ignore them. Most of the difficult problems have shifted somewhere else from low-level. How to simulate millions of pharmaceutical molecules in short amount of time ? How to simulate the world in GTA VI ? Saving 2 bytes of memory by writing asm (that… won’t be portable) is not the thing going to save you. The problems are now elsewhere. The problem now is not about “wow you read ancient manuals and mixed sand with water and got a solid foundational brick” but it is about “ok, using these bricks, how to build a skyscraper that is 1km tall”. No doubt that these modern programmers are as good as the archeologists who like to explore handcrafted code. | | |
| ▲ | attractivechaos 18 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | This doesn't explain why so few people of Fabrice's generation have reached his level. Think about violin playing. Many players can become professionals if they have the obsession, but 99% of them won't reach the Heifetz/Hadelich/Ehnes level no matter how hard they try. Talent matters. Programming is not much different from performing art. | |
| ▲ | __patchbit__ 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Victor Taelin posts an intuition `HVM is missing a fundamental building block' having done 10 years thinking https://x.com/VictorTaelin/status/2003839852006232478?s=20
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| ▲ | cryptonector 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > It’s far from being impossible, the main thing you need is free time and obsession (and money for your free time btw). I'm aware :( (I maintain one, one written by my Swedish friends, whom too were obsessed.) |
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| ▲ | shevy-java 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| With his recent release of MicroQuickJS, and also prior work,
he kind of has to do epic things. People expect that of him. |
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| ▲ | rurban 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| (2009) |
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| ▲ | dang 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | I've put that in the title above, although the URL says 2020 - could the text have been updated? | | |
| ▲ | lioeters 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | By the way (I'm who submitted the link) - I found a prior discussion on the same document but different URL now expired. There's even a comment by one of the authors, sharing some context. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2555654 (2011) My favorite line from the biography: > [As a child] Bellard was drawn to electronic devices. His first word was magnétophone (tape recorder). | | | |
| ▲ | rurban 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | In the text isn't anything after 2009. And a lot of cool projects happened after 2009. | | |
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| ▲ | brcmthrowaway 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Do we think Bellard got rich, like antirez? |
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| ▲ | dakiol 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| While the guy is brilliant, I doubt he could fit the role of senior/staff/principal engineer in any one-level-below faang kind of company. Typically, these roles require good communication skills and working together with other engineers (which is really hard). So, while he's very good at the tech level, I think he primarily works alone? In that regard, it would be a very bad fit. I may be wrong, tho. |
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| ▲ | haunter 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | He is the co-founder and CTO
of Amarisoft built on thechnology he developed https://www.amarisoft.com/ https://www.amarisoft.com/company/about-us https://bellard.org/lte/ | |
| ▲ | questionableans 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In technically deep domains like Bellard works in, Staff+ roles bias more towards technical expertise, and managers also tend to be more technical and able to more completely address technical coordination tasks. Sometimes we like to assume that if someone is good at one thing, they’ll be bad at something more mundane (to make ourselves feel better), but I sincerely doubt he would have any trouble in such a role. | |
| ▲ | petermcd 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Staff SWE at a FAANG here. Fabrice Bellard is not a 10x engineer, he is a 100x engineer. You could attach him to a good people manager and either build a team around him or allow him to work independently on a project that he finds exciting that also aligns with company goals. | | |
| ▲ | rvnx 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | I think you are mixing up art, technical skills and productivity. Put Terry Davis (again him) as senior manager at Apple, and see the result. From my point of view, Terry has the same level and approaches as Fabrice. It does not guarantee at all that he is going to be more productive than 100 engineers as you directly claim. It makes them good in what they like to do (writing obfuscated or low-level code, or implementing from scratch from specifications) as art or creativity. | | |
| ▲ | petermcd 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Thank you for introducing me to Terry Davis. I'm going to read more about him. I am definitely not talking about art. When I refer to 100x engineer, I'm referring to the impact that QEMU and FFmpeg have had on the world. I would be surprised if anyone who is familiar with these two projects would disagree that they have been highly impactful. |
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| ▲ | tommy92 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Lots of negative stereotypical assumption there. If you have some source backing all this, share your claims otherwise personal attacks without any serious base isn't a good reflection. | |
| ▲ | inopinatus 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | At M.Bellard’s level one would could hardly even call such an outcome a character flaw, but my occasional privilege of managing - one should rather say, enabling - high performance teams, taught that the Venn intersection of “competent with imagination” and “collegiate manner” is far from empty, even in the tech sector. “‘We're delighted to have you here,’ he said, ‘but a word of advice. Don't try to be clever. We're all clever here. Only try to be kind, a little kind.’ Like most university stories, this one is variously attributed and it probably never even happened but, as the Italians say, se non e vero, e ben trovato - even if it isn't true, it's well founded.” ⸺ Stephen Fry. | |
| ▲ | rdtsc 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > While the guy is brilliant, I doubt he could fit the role of senior/staff/principal engineer in any one-level-below faang kind of company. Maybe but what’s the point? Hell, I might guess he is terrible at jiggling and basket weaving, too. Complete failure as wrestler, even. But that is kind of neither here or there. Or is it you think staff title at faangs is some kind of pinnacle position every engineer should strive for? It actually always strikes me as a funny title. In college when they didn’t have a specific professor to teach or just going to use a grad student they put “staff” in the name box so in my mind it’s associated with a random lower rung student who couldn’t get away doing just research. | | |
| ▲ | eichin 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yeah, staff engineer is a pinnacle "still doing engineering and maybe leadership but not management" position in engineering firms. The academic "staff" is just a "not really one of us" gatekeeping-the-servants title. |
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| ▲ | rramadass an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > I doubt he could fit the role of senior/staff/principal engineer in any one-level-below faang kind of company. Why would you even think that these sort of exceptional people would even be interested in mere jobs? These are people who are solo auteurs; something in them feels a need to express themselves in full creativity without restraint in any domain they choose to focus on. That is what makes them unique because they are the few who can change Science into Art and make it seem effortless. The common man calls them "Geniuses" but it is actually a way of living, thinking and training. Much of Society's institutions, companies, jobs etc. is designed to get the most out of the average person which does not work for creative individuals. To measure the latter using the yardstick for average is foolish in the extreme. This is why true Scientists/Researchers/Artists etc. need to be treated very differently from the "common" man. For all the hoopla about Corporations/Companies/Groups/Teams etc. in the modern world, all our civilizational breakthroughs have emerged from a single individual or a small group of individuals. | |
| ▲ | kergonath 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > I doubt he could fit the role of senior/staff/principal engineer in any one-level-below faang kind of company. Why would he want to do that, though? | |
| ▲ | kaffekaka 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yeah and can he do it on a cold rainy night in stoke? | |
| ▲ | adamors 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Who cares about being a staff at FAANG lmao when he gets to do what he does currently? | | | |
| ▲ | dllu 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The fact that so many people use FFmpeg and QEMU suggest that he is quite good at documenting, collaborating, and at least making his code remarkably clean and easy to follow. This already puts him way ahead of the average silicon valley senior software engineer that I've worked with. However, he does value independence so I don't think he would have been happy working at a faang-type company for long. | | | |
| ▲ | FpUser 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >"In that regard, it would be a very bad fit. " He might as well be but why would he give a flying fuck about it? He gets to do what he wants and is financially independent for doing just that. Most can only dream about it. Myself - I do not come within a million miles to his professional level, but I still have managed to do just that - I develop what I want, how I want and get paid for it. I am 64 and still design and develop actively for my own company and for clients. Gives me happiness, motivation to stay alert and more than enough time to still do my hobbies (mostly various outdoor activities). | |
| ▲ | anonymous908213 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Is it insecurity about yourself that leads you to baselessly speculate that an accomplished figure is unemployable? | | |
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