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emsixteen 6 hours ago

Will hop over to one of these the day that the AAA multiplayer titles I want to play are supported. I know it's down to the anticheat, but I still wanna play 'em. Hopefully Valve are able to push that forward.

MrDrMcCoy 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Personally, I hope that corporate rootkits will never be permitted on Linux in any form. Game studios need to learn that anticheat needs to live on the server side where it belongs.

jsheard 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Easier said than done for some genres, unfortunately. To catch things like aim assistance from the server-side you'd have to resort to handwavy statistical analysis and somehow thread the needle between catching well-crafted aimbots, but without accidentally banning legitimate players under any circumstances, even if they're extremely skilled and/or lucky.

It's been tried but I don't think it's ever been very successful. The Battlefield series used to use Fairfight, which is based on server-side heuristics, but they ultimately gave up on it and switched back to client-side detection for the more recent games.

asmor 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Cheating creates two problems. Obvious cheats aiming to upset other players and subtle cheats that don't want to be noticed as such. Now, I'm not saying it doesn't matter if people cheat as long as nobody notices or that competitive integrity is not important, but the first category is a much more immediate threat for most games and easy to detect. On a server analyzing locally recorded sampled demos.

MrDrMcCoy 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That statistical analysis with post-facto game recordings could be pretty accurate, and needn't result in bans. In fact, I think banning cheaters is dumb. Instead, we should weight matchmaking algorithms to put cheaters all on the same servers. If they want to cheat, why not let them cheat against each other?

jsheard 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Mistakenly hellbanning legitimate players wouldn't be much better than banning them outright. Either way you've got a justifiably angry customer.

cindyllm 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

d3Xt3r 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If your definition of "AAA" includes Arc Raiders and Marvel Rivals, then good news, they work.

But if your definition specifically refers to shooters like Fortnite or BF6, then yeah, they're not going to work. Except CS of course, but not sure if CS counts as "AAA" in your books.

xiconfjs 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

We can only hope Valve‘s new „console“ will hit the market strong so they have another levarage to push the studios to implement appropiate, linux compatible anti-cheat.

MrDrMcCoy 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Anticheat doesn't need to be Linux compatible, it needs to move server-side.

MindSpunk 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It has been. It's been server-side for decades. It's common industry knowledge that the client can't have authority. But server-side anti cheat can't stop aimbots or wall hacks. Client side anti cheat isn't about stopping you from issuing "teleport me to here plz server" commands, it's about stopping people from reading and writing the game's memory/address space.

If you wanted to teleport (and the server was poorly implemented enough to let you) you could just intercept your network packets and add a "teleport plz" message. Real cheats in the wild used to work this way. However a wallhack will need to read the game's memory to know where players are.

What modern anti cheat software does is make it difficult for casual cheats to read/write the game's memory, and force more sophisticated cheats down detectable exploit paths. It's impossible to prevent someone from reading the memory on untrusted hardware, but you can make it difficult and detectable so you can minimize the number of cheaters and maximize the number you detect and ban.

Linux is incompatible with client anti-cheat because there is no security boundary that can't be sidestepped with a custom compiled kernel. Windows is Windows, with known APIs and ways to read process memory that can be monitored. Secure boot means only Microsoft's own built kernels can boot and you now have a meaningful security boundary. Monitor what kernel drivers are loaded and you can make it harder for cheaters to find ways in. Sure you can run in a VM, but you can also detect when it happens.

Sure we can just run with no client side anticheat at all (functionally what Linux always is unless you only run approved, signed kernels and distros with secure boot) but wallhacks and aimbots become trivial to implement. These can only really be detected server side with statistical analysis. I hope you don't ban too many innocent people trying to find all the cheaters that way.

sbarre 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Honest question: given all the companies and people working on anti-cheat systems for the last 20+ years of multiplayer video games, don't you think it would all be server-side if it could be, by now?

smolder an hour ago | parent | next [-]

No, game companies are simply unwilling to pay for the talent and man hours that it takes to police their games for cheaters. Even when they are scanning your memory and filesystem they don't catch people running the latest rented cheat software.

thenthenthen 42 minutes ago | parent [-]

Cheating is a social problem, not a technical issue. Just give the community dedicated server possibility (remember how back in the days games used to ship with dedicated server binaries?) and the community can police for free! Wow!

smolder 34 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yes, I would also prefer that servers were community run as in the hl2 days.

I would still argue that there are technical issues leading to some amount of cheating. In extraction shooters like Hunt Showdown, Escape From Tarkov and a few others, people can run pcie devices that rip player location and other information from the machines memory in order to inject it into an overlay with a 2nd computer, and they do go to these lengths to cheat, giving them a huge advantage. It wouldn't be possible to rip that info from memory for these "ESP cheats" if the server didn't needlessly transmit position information for players that aren't actually visible. IMO this is a technical failure. There are other steps that could be taken as well, which just aren't because they're hard.

d3Xt3r 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No, because most companies will make decisions based on time/effort/profitability, and because client-side anticheat is stupid simple and cheap, that's what they go with. Why waste their own server resources, when they can waste the user's?

sbarre 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Alright then, sounds like you've got it all figured out.

KyleGospo 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Agree 100%, client side anti cheat was never going to work.

simoncion 2 hours ago | parent [-]

To the downvoters: client-side anticheat simply cannot stop all the cheaters. Why? Because it's running on hardware that the cheater has full control over.

It has been (and continues to be) an enormous amount of effort, and some cheaters are absolutely going to get through anyway.

KyleGospo 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Right, you cannot control hardware you do not own and have in your possession. A cheat that uses another computer and a camera to watch the screen and emulate a mouse is an effective aimbot that no client side method will ever detect. The future must be server authoritative net code and behavior-based server-side cheat detection.

simoncion an hour ago | parent [-]

> The future must be server authoritative net code and behavior-based server-side cheat detection.

If they actually cared about stopping cheaters (rather than pouring tons of investor money into the appearance of anti-cheat), then yes, the future must be that.

But. I'm a USian and I notice that the TSA is still strip-searching people at airports and -worse- wasting assloads of everyone's time, effort, and tax money. I have zero faith that a sudden attack of common sense will redirect efforts (whether they be in the arena of airport security or eviction of match-damaging video game cheaters) in a more sensible direction within what's left of my lifetime.

2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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