| ▲ | Testing shows automotive glassbreakers can't break modern automotive glass(core77.com) |
| 102 points by surprisetalk 14 hours ago | 110 comments |
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| ▲ | csours 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Disclosure: I work for a car company, not on this. If you want to be prepared for automotive incidents: 1. Check your mood and intoxication level before and while driving. Mood is more important than everything besides drugs and alcohol. 2. Left turns (or across traffic as applicable) are dangerous. Take extra care while turning left (or across traffic). 3. Using screens at night is bad for everyone, but especially above the age of 40, both focus and iris (light balance) response take longer. Using a screen changes your focus and blows out your night vision. 4. If your car has pushbutton electronic door openers, PRACTICE opening the door without battery power. |
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| ▲ | themafia 39 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > If your car has pushbutton electronic door openers, PRACTICE opening the door without battery power. Please stop building cars with this "feature." We honestly should make them illegal. | | | |
| ▲ | PunchyHamster 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Funnily enough the first comment in the article is "oh yeah, if you're in Tesla good fucking luck, their doors fail and the releases are incredibly hard to find in emergency" | | |
| ▲ | dunham 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I didn't find them hard to find (in the front seat). When I first got my car it kept complaining because I instinctively reached for that lever instead of the button. The computer claimed I could break the window if I kept using the manual lever, and I had to figure out where the button was. Not saying the car is great, just that I found the door lever easily. I'd still rather have real controls (and a real sensor) for the wipers and the reliance on software and software updates makes me very nervous. You can't even open the glove box without a voice command or touch screen (as far as I can tell). | | |
| ▲ | codazoda 35 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Same. I’ve only ridden in one, but the owner wasn’t super happy when I instinctively pulled the manual lever to open the door. |
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| ▲ | QuiEgo an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | The front ones seem easy enough, the rear ones are a lot harder https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/2020_2024_modely/en_us/GU... | | |
| ▲ | dan353hehe an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | whoa. > Not all Model Y vehicles are equipped with a manual release for the rear doors. How is that even allowed? | |
| ▲ | karlgkk an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | The front ones vary and certain models are atrociously designed. If you get in an accident and have a concussion, and adrenaline, add a 10x difficulty factor This is almost certainly what killed those kids in piedmont |
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| ▲ | AlotOfReading 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | One of my pet peeves about screen UIs is that they're worse than they need to be for night use. Modern dark themes are blue-heavy, which negatively impacts both pupil response and bleaching more than colors of the same luminance with more green and red. | |
| ▲ | underlipton 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >3. Using screens at night is bad for everyone, but especially above the age of 40, both focus and iris (light balance) response take longer. Using a screen changes your focus and blows out your night vision. On that note, if anyone with Uber, Lyft, DoorDash, et al. would like to revisit the way their apps handle ride assignment - specifically, the way platforms generally refuse to assign orders when the car is stationary, but then inundate contractors with notifications that must be responded to immediately when the car is in motion - it'd be much appreciated. | |
| ▲ | modzu 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | if you coudlld just remove the screens except for nav/media thatd be great |
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| ▲ | thefourthchime 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The article glides over the fact that FMVSS 226 is a performance standard, not a materials mandate. Manufacturers can stick with tempered glass if they beef up the side curtain airbags enough to prevent ejection, which is exactly what happens on a lot of base models and rear windows to keep BOM costs down. The list of brands using laminated glass is accurate, but it applies mostly to their premium trims or front rows only. There is also the issue of fleet turnover. With the average age of US vehicles pushing 13 years, the install base is still overwhelmingly tempered glass. Writing off the tool entirely because new luxury cars have moved on ignores the reality of what people are actually driving. You are statistically much more likely to be trapped in a 2012 Civic than a 2025 S-Class. |
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| ▲ | alistairSH 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It did cover that. And half the tools couldn’t break the tempered glass either. | |
| ▲ | sndean 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The smartest thing to do would be to check your car’s windows for any indication (the AAA report, page 19, cited in the article has examples) of whether they’re laminated or tempered. AFAICT, whether my new-ish Subaru Ascent’s windows are laminated depends on location (front or rear) and installation differs between the Ascent trims. Best to check for your specific car and where you’re likeliest to be sitting. | |
| ▲ | bayindirh 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > The article glides over the fact that FMVSS 226 is a performance standard, not a materials mandate. Nope. The article states the following just after the table: > It's true that not all automakers have switched over to laminated glass for the side windows; the FMVSS 226 law stipulates that you can get around it if you install elaborate side airbags that also prevent ejection. | | |
| ▲ | alwa 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | As the grandparent points out, although the article says that, the actual regulation does not. The regulation says you have to prevent side ejections, it doesn’t say how. You can read it yourself: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.226 > Ejection mitigation countermeasure means a device or devices, except seat belts, integrated into the vehicle that reduce the likelihood of occupant ejection through a side window opening, and that requires no action by the occupant for activation. Lamination and side airbags seem to be the way it’s usually done today, but nothing prevents a better way. |
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| ▲ | atarian 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I bought a fire extinguisher recently but I’ve never used one. I have a faint idea of how it works and what kind of result I’d get based on what I’ve seen on TV. But if a serious fire ever breaks out I don’t even know if I’d even remember to grab and use it. |
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| ▲ | dreamcompiler an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | In a "serious" fire you should ignore the fire extinguisher get everyone out of the building. Fire extinguishers are for small fires! If a little oil in your frying pan catches on fire and you don't have a lid readily available to smother it, use a fire extinguisher. But if your smoke alarm wakes you up and you discover your whole kitchen on fire, get out. The fire extinguisher will not help in that situation, and it may cause you to waste time. (Tip: If and only if the fire extinguisher is easily available, carry it with you as you exit. You might need it to use it clear a path to get out.) | |
| ▲ | dpifke 38 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If you're in the U.S., you might check if your local fire department has a CERT[0] training course. (I did it many years ago in San Francisco; they call it NERT for some reason.) It'll give you a chance to practice putting out an actual fire, refresh first aid skills, learn the incident command system, learn basic search and rescue, and other preparedness skills to help yourself, your family, and neighbors in an emergency (in that order). [0]: https://www.fema.gov/emergency-managers/individuals-communit... | |
| ▲ | Telaneo 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If you have an old one that you want to get rid of, it's a good idea to set up a controlled fire and try out your extinguisher on it. That way you can get some experience. Really though, it mostly is just pull pin -> aim low (at the base and source of the fire) -> squeeze until extinguished. Sweep the nozzle from side to side to get proper coverage. They're intended to be used by anyone with no training, so there's not much to go wrong (assuming you haven't bought the wrong type and use it on an oil fire, although most of the ones I see for sale for consumers are the powder kind, which work on anything. The water ones are the worst, and I've never seen one). | | |
| ▲ | NooneAtAll3 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | and it needs to be remembered not to hold the nozzle - aim with the whole extinguisher nozzle gets veeery cold as gas expands, so you can get frost burns |
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| ▲ | adiabatichottub 13 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A couple years ago somebody parked a stolen car in front of our building, stuffed a rag in the fuel filler, and lit it. I must have pulled up just a couple minutes after they had left. Grabbed the fire extinguisher I kept under the seat and put it out. I had that extinguisher around for about 5 years. You never know when you'll need it. | |
| ▲ | whartung 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | As someone who has found themselves in a situation out in the wild with a fire and a fire extinguisher (neither of which were mine), with no direct extinguisher experience, you can take some solace in that they work very easily. They're not some wild hose that going to send you around the room. There's very little force. And you can simply fire it in bursts. It takes no time to get a feel for it and use it with precision. If you find yourself with a fire and an extinguisher, do not hesitate to pull the pin, and go to it. You'll figure it out. In the end, you can't really make the situation worse. | |
| ▲ | -warren 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In fire school we learned PASS -- pin, aim, squeeze, sweep. Even well-trained professionals need simple mnemonic devices. Also, we never used a seatbelt ripper -- they don't work. All first responders carrier trauma shears. Those do work and have multiple purposes. | |
| ▲ | 3eb7988a1663 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If you are looking to practice, the MythBusters said a fire extinguisher was an excellent way to quickly cool a case of beer. So, you can make it a $30 party trick and a teaching moment. | |
| ▲ | phantasmish an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | My son picked up and used one effectively having about the same level of experience you do (none, but he knew the basic idea and had read the label). Can’t remember if he was 7 or 8 at the time, but either way I’m pretty sure you’ll be ok. I mean, still doesn’t hurt to get more familiar, but… |
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| ▲ | monster_truck 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| None of these glass breakers are any good at what they're supposed to do anyways, I'd wager all of their websites delinate that they are for tempered glass only. What you want is porcelain or ceramic. Unfortunately, afaik, porclean/cermaic glass breakers are illegal in most states. They are "Burglary Tools". Nothing wrong with keeping a box of spark plugs in your center console though |
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| ▲ | adiabatichottub 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Thieves in my city use the kind of automatic center punch that you can buy at any hardware store. | |
| ▲ | Johnny555 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A ceramic glass breaker isn't going to be any better than the metal tools on laminated glass, breaking the glass is only half the battle, you've still got to get through the intact glass pane held in place by the plastic laminate. >Nothing wrong with keeping a box of spark plugs in your center console though But then you've got to keep a tool to break the spark plug to give you a sharp ceramic shard to get through the glass. | | | |
| ▲ | mikkupikku 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That old spark plug thing was from when cars had tempered side windows, wasn't it? I don't see how those would be particularly effective at dealing with lamination. | |
| ▲ | m463 35 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > None of these glass breakers are any good ...unless you're demonstrating unbreakable cybertruck glass to the world. | |
| ▲ | mikestew 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I fail to see how any of your suggestions are going to do any better on laminated glass. Breaking the glass isn’t the problem here, it’s the lamination. | |
| ▲ | loeg 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Broken spark plugs are also known as "ninja rocks," for what it's worth. Also considered illegal burglary tools in some states. | |
| ▲ | rdtsc 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Would a spark plug work on laminated glass? | |
| ▲ | The_President 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Or when in something with windows like a Cybertruck maybe a 45 |
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| ▲ | roflchoppa 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Whats weird is that I know of at least 8 “modern cars” 2018+ that all have had cracked windshields. 3 of them are mine, my 2002 car has taken huge rocks like a champ… Its big glass im telling you, esp because the recalibration stuff for Assistive Steering is like 7-800 bucks. |
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| ▲ | tforcram 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Similar experience with a 2010 Honda Odyssey, drove it for 10 years and never saw a crack even though I'm sure it took a beating. Then we got a 2022 Passport and I swear every single trip has a new crack or chip. I was surprisingly fortunate to be talked into the windshield warranty as the sales guy has been through this exact thing and replacing these windshields with assistive tech is expensive. That warranty has already paid for itself and more including once full windshield replacement. | | |
| ▲ | cobertos an hour ago | parent [-] | | Huh, odd. I have a car with assistive controls and they also tried to talk me into this warranty but I declined. They mentioned replacement would require extra money. I did end up getting a windshield replacement shortly after purchase (like 6 months into ownership a rock came out of a truck and hit my windshield). I got it replaced for the normal $100-$200 not from the dealership and the vision system has had no issues. |
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| ▲ | t0mas88 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The table from the report shows that the tools do crack the window but don't break it. Which is probably the main difference between old glass and the newer layered glass? If you crack an outer layer it is no longer usable, but you can't escape through it. | |
| ▲ | daemonologist 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > the recalibration stuff for Assistive Steering is like 7-800 bucks Yeesh at that point I'd just be buying a Comma. | | |
| ▲ | rogerrogerr 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Usually the glass companies force you to pay it. For “safety”. It’s just a “you have a nice car so we’re gonna charge you more” fee. I’ll probably be doing my own windshield on my Tesla to avoid this. Safelight has decent prices but whacks you with a huge fee for pressing “calibrate” in the service menu, which is user accessible. |
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| ▲ | inkyoto 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Laminated glass does not prevent routine stone chip events – if a tiny fragment of the stone becomes wedged in the outer ply or at the laminate interface at a tension point and, coupled with the temperature difference (inside the cabin vs ambient), cabin pressure and body flex that often place higher tensile stress lower on the windscreen, the crack can start propagating very quickly. That was my experience earlier in the year: I was driving alongside a large fuel tanker on a city road when a tiny stone chip, probably thrown up from under the tanker’s tyres, struck the front windscreen. It took about an 1 ½ hour for the initially invisible crack to spread into an irreparable 30 cm one – effectively right in front of my eyes – and the windscreen had to be replaced. Lesson learned: do not drive anywhere near large trucks or fuel tankers or maintain a larger distance. But the laminated glass will prevent the structural collapse of the windshield and will also prevent the occupants from being showered with glass shards. It is also more likely that the windshield will withstand an impact from a large stone, leaving a localised and static crack that can be repaired with resin. |
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| ▲ | bombcar 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You can just carry the Ripper. https://www.aoe.net/product/the-ripper-window-glass-cutter/ |
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| ▲ | 3eb7988a1663 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Not sure about the "car falls into the lake" scenario, but I know some women who carry these for fear of a crazed Uber driver who might lock them in the car. |
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| ▲ | ronsor 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | The crazy Uber drivers would replace their windows with plexiglass if that caught on. | | |
| ▲ | AngryData 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You are assuming a crazed uber driver is smart and knowledgeable enough to do that, but 90% of people driving ubers to start with are doing so because they don't have those kind of skills or knowledge. | | |
| ▲ | DANmode 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Well, this is a whole different kind of ignorant. | |
| ▲ | ronsor 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I think the crazy kidnappers might have another reason for doing it other than lacking skills. |
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| ▲ | chdjdbdbfjf 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Your threat model is incoherent. |
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| ▲ | tharwan 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Victorinox tried to address this with this tool, not sure how successful https://www.victorinox.com/en-DE/Products/Swiss-Army-Knife%E... |
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| ▲ | jjmarr 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Can I still remove the headrest and use it to break glass? |
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| ▲ | Izkata 3 minutes ago | parent [-] | | This is apparently a mix of myth and misleading information: They can't be used to directly break the glass like these devices were designed to, they were never designed for this purpose as people claim, and even the "lever it between the glass and door" method only works with tempered glass and not the laminated glass that's used in newer cars. Plus not all headrests can be removed anyway. |
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| ▲ | drob518 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Simple. Just make sure you test your glass breaker on your car side window before you drive off the road or bridge into a deep lake. |
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| ▲ | JSR_FDED 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| “It's easy to convince EDC people to buy EDC things. But how do you convince non-EDC folks to buy your product?” Am I the only one who doesn’t know what EDC is? |
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| ▲ | nine_k 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I wonder why is this not part of the standard safety tests. It can be done before a crash test, for instance. |
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| ▲ | happyopossum 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | What exactly are you proposing gets tested? The windows are supposed to be hard to break so people don’t fly out of them… | | |
| ▲ | _aavaa_ 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Hard enough to not fly out accidentally but weak enough that people can break them on purpose so they're not trapped inside. | | |
| ▲ | Johnny555 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | I think there's an impossibly thin line between making glass that's easy to break through on purpose, but hard for a high speed head to break through in an accident. | | |
| ▲ | stavros 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm fairly sure that the two lines are way past each other, on the wrong side. The force with which you'll be flung against the glass is much higher than what you can punch. | | |
| ▲ | _aavaa_ 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | This isn’t about punching, it’s about using one of those handheld devices with a pointed metal tip. |
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| ▲ | AngryData 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Most tempered glass does it just fine and has for decades. |
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| ▲ | torstenvl 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's what seat belts are for. Making unbreakable glass is morally repugnant. | | |
| ▲ | dpark 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | This law is intended to protect belted occupants as well. The target here is rollover crashes where belted occupants may still be jostled partially free from the belt and be partially ejected. | | |
| ▲ | torstenvl 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | Not relevant. Safety designs that kill people are indefensible. | | |
| ▲ | walletdrainer 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Safety designs that kill people are indefensible. Then it logically follows that either the only defensible approach is to not have any safety solutions, or that there simply isn’t a defensible approach. The tradeoffs are unavoidable, a seatbelt or airbag might very well kill someone despite saving countless lives. Even tech like lane departure warnings will almost inevitably distract and kill someone. | |
| ▲ | pixl97 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Wait till someone tells this guy about the trolley problem. | |
| ▲ | dpark 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is literally the logic anti-seatbelt folks use. “I don’t wear a seatbelt because if I’m in a crash, the seatbelt could end up trapping me in a fire.” Safety design very often involves trade offs. The chances you get partially ejected and killed during a rollover are meaningfully higher than the chances you die because you can’t break the glass to get out. Do you even keep a glass breaker in your car or do you imagine after surviving a wreck that’s trapped you inside your car that you will have the strength to just punch through a glass window? | |
| ▲ | tekla 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm going to guess that you don't work on safety engineering. All safety designs have tradeoffs. Airbags can kill you but we still use them because the probable benefits outweigh the risks. | | |
| ▲ | torstenvl 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Airbags do not kill people. There were fewer than 300 airbag-related deaths of the course of two decades, and the vast majority of those deaths were caused by not wearing a seatbelt. | | |
| ▲ | vkou 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Airbags do not kill people. > fewer than 300 airbag-related deaths So, they do kill people. They kill people at a low enough rate that make them both worth installing, and mandating, compared to the alternatives. | |
| ▲ | dpark 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | And in that time how many deaths were attributed to laminate glass? |
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| ▲ | Ekaros 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Exiting through a window is probably not a common case. Or even entering from outside to retrieve a person. I think likely much better would be to mandate solution that forces doors to fully unlock in case of a crash or large water ingress. | | |
| ▲ | stavros 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | The problem isn't that doors don't unlock, it's that you can't open the door against the massive water pressure, or against the door crumpling in itself and ruining the mechanism. |
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| ▲ | zoklet-enjoyer 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Oh cool. I bought the same model as that image for my girlfriend's kid yesterday |
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| ▲ | mikkupikku 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > "The fantasy being peddled by the toolmakers is: You will crash, remain conscious, find that your car has burst into flame or is slowly sinking in water, find that you cannot undo your seatbelt, yet are still able to reach for this specialty tool, slice through your seatbelt, then smash the window open and climb free to safety." Uh huh... Now consider this scenario; you lose control and crash into a tree. You are out and your car catches fire. Who gets to the scene first? Firefighters, or probably just whichever randos happened to be right there when it happened? Probably the later. Probably for the best if one of them is able to break your window and pull you out. |
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| ▲ | nine_k 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Have a crowbar handy. It's known to be useful in a variety of situations, including a literal space alien assault. |
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| ▲ | windowsrookie 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | But also don’t leave it loose in your vehicle. A crowbar hitting your head in a car accident does not sound like a good time. | | | |
| ▲ | drob518 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A small charge of C4 works wonders. Just be sure to lay your head over in the passenger seat before detonation. | |
| ▲ | Aloha 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I carry a small hatchet in the trunk of my car with the spare tire just for this reason. | |
| ▲ | excalibur 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | We're gonna need a source on that one. | | |
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| ▲ | silexia 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Useful tech post! |
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| ▲ | porphyra 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| oh just get Franz von Holzhausen to throw a ball bearing at it |
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| ▲ | superkuh 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | The problem isnot cracking the glass. The problem is breaking it apart enough to get through. Your reference joke is not quite appropriate to this context. |
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| ▲ | croes 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| So no fast rescue of children and dogs in cars in the summer heat anymore |
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| ▲ | sizzzzlerz 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| What are the police to do when some insane sovcit refuses to exit the car over a speeding ticket? Those windows aren’t going to break themselves. |
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| ▲ | AngryData 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Why should they exit a car over a speeding ticket? A speeding ticket is not a jail sentence and does not warrant an arrest. In fact unless a driver is actively trying to harm somebody or has an active arrest warrant there is no reason whatsoever for them to leave their car or allow cops to remove people from cars. | | |
| ▲ | nerdsniper 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | In some states, it is the law that officers can order you to step out of the vehicle during any valid traffic stop, regardless if it is criminal or civil. In some states it is the law that if you are from out of state and get a speeding ticket, you either have to pay the officer in cash while you are stopped or they can take you to jail until money is posted or it is your court date. This happened to a friend of mine from Wisconsin, visiting me in Michigan about ten years ago. I was shocked to learn this was actual Mochigan law, and could hardly believe it even after verifying it. He felt very “lucky” to have had several hundred dollars in cash to simply hand over to the officer. Michigan only just rescinded those laws in 2019: https://landline.media/michigan-laws-end-roadside-cash-payme... | | |
| ▲ | Spivak 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I can't wait for police badges to double as contactless payment terminals. | | |
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| ▲ | stavros 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The fact that you're trying to optimize for "police serving speeding tickets to insane sovcits" over "getting flung out of the car in an accident and being crushed by the car" makes me glad you don't design cars. |
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