| ▲ | logifail 17 hours ago |
| > I think people who kept saying there is no moat in AI is about to be shocked at how strong of a moat there actually is for ChatGPT Given one can (at least for the moment) export one's entire chat history from ChatGPT, what exactly would stop a ChatGPT user from switching to an alternative if the alternative is either better, or better value? |
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| ▲ | aurareturn 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| No one normal will do that. And I'm betting that OpenAI will get rid of that functionality soon. |
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| ▲ | chroma205 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | >No one normal will do that. Google Chrome did it. They can do it again. | |
| ▲ | swexbe 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Just like no one normal would ever switch from internet explorer? | | |
| ▲ | aurareturn 16 hours ago | parent [-] | | Browsers made it easy to import/export bookmarks and history. You don't see Instagram willingly giving up all their data on users to Tiktok right? |
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| ▲ | jchip303 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | android521 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The answer is friction. What % of this billion of users will bother to export their chat history (which is already a lot) and import another another llm. That number is too small to matter. |
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| ▲ | adam_patarino 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Since each chat is virtually independent there’s no switching cost. I’ve moved between Claude and ChatGPT with no cares. It’s not like Facebook where all my friends stay behind | | |
| ▲ | aranelsurion 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Since each chat is virtually independent That hasn't been true for a while though. Open a new chat tab in ChatGPT and ask it "What do you know about me" to see it in action. | | |
| ▲ | downsplat 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | You can turn that off. If you're using LLMs for technical or real world questions, it's nicer for each chat to be a blank slate. |
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| ▲ | friendzis 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Wrong ratio. How many of those care about their own particular history in the first place and what % of those at least actively manage it outside of standard chat interface or even hop providers? I think that % would surprise you. | |
| ▲ | swexbe 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | All chat apps look exactly the same and have exactly the same features. The friction is basically non-existent compared to email services, social media, web browsers, &c. | | |
| ▲ | ethmarks 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think it matters to more than you might think. A significant portion of the non-technical ChatGPT userbase get really attached to the model flavor. The GPT-4o controversy is a good example. People got attached to 4o's emotional and enthusiastic response style. When GPT-5--which was much more terse and practical--rolled out, people got really upset because they were treating ChatGPT as a confident and friend, and were upset when it's personality changed. In my experience, Gemini and Claude are much more helpful and terse than ChatGPT with less conversational padding. I can imagine that the people who value that conversational padding would have a similar reaction to Gemini or Claude as they did to GPT-5. | |
| ▲ | aurareturn 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yet, somehow I've been paying $20/month to ChatGPT for years now and I don't use Claude or Gemini even when they're free or have slightly better models. | | |
| ▲ | raw_anon_1111 15 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Many more people see “AI overviews” everyday with Google being the default search engine on almost every mobile phone outside of China. | | | |
| ▲ | davidcbc 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Oh well if YOU do something then that's that |
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| ▲ | chroma205 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > The answer is friction. Yet non-technical users switched from Edge/Safari to Google Chrome. | | |
| ▲ | aurareturn 16 hours ago | parent [-] | | Because there is no data in a browser. Even if there is, browsers made it easy to import/export bookmarks and history. You don't see Instagram willingly giving up all their data on users to Tiktok right? |
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| ▲ | veeti 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Google can just build "import from ChatGPT" into Chrome, like switching from Internet Explorer back in the day. |
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| ▲ | aurareturn 16 hours ago | parent [-] | | How do you suppose they can do that technically when OpenAI inevitably remove export function? | | |
| ▲ | raw_anon_1111 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | Doesn’t the GDPR mandate it? I know even AWS had to introduce a one time method of being able to export your data without charge. |
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| ▲ | darkwater 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| - Knowing that an alternative exists - Switching effort Word of mouth usually works just with one vendor at a time. |
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| ▲ | auggierose 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| 99% of users having no idea what "export chat history" means? |
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| ▲ | chroma205 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > 99% of users having no idea what "export chat history" means? Yet Google Chrome managed to make Safari/Edge irrelevant. | | |
| ▲ | ethmarks 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Not having used anything except for Firefox, I don't have any experience with migrating to different browsers. However, my understanding is that Chrome shows a little pop-up that lets you import from previous browsers rather than relying on the user to do a data export. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. I suspect that Claude couldn't make an "import from ChatGPT" button because OpenAI would make it difficult, so they'd have to rely on user initiative and technical capability (exporting to JSON and importing from JSON is enough technical friction that the average user won't bother). | |
| ▲ | auggierose 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yeah, not because of browser history export/import, mate. I've never used that feature for any browser. | |
| ▲ | raw_anon_1111 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Try telling your PM that you want to ignore Safari when you create your website with 60%+ of mobile users in the US using iPhones and globally your most affluent users are on iPhones. Even if they download Chrome for iOS, they are still using WebKit. |
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| ▲ | rglullis 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | How many of those will have no issue to learn what it is once the ads become too annoying? | | |
| ▲ | auggierose 16 hours ago | parent [-] | | Very good question! 1% ? | | |
| ▲ | rglullis 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | You are vastly overestimating people's willingness to deal with bullshit, when the product does not have a real lock in. It would be incredibly easy to have a company offering their ChatGPT over WhatsApp or iMessage, and get people to start using it instead of an ad-ridden GPT app. | | |
| ▲ | auggierose 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | Maybe. But maybe you are vastly overestimating people's willingness to give a fuck, as long as they get what they came for. That is why ads rule. |
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| ▲ | daliusd 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| What alternative? Switching requires something what is better 10x |
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| ▲ | Spivak 16 hours ago | parent [-] | | No it doesn't, people switch ISPs and phone plans all the time for on the order of 1x difference. |
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| ▲ | Spivak 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| People are being weird about this. ChatGPT has no moat because switching costs are zero. There's no investment into a particular AI service. ChatGPT has mindshare but that's not the same as it being a moat. The fact that people will continue to use ChatGPT after some gentle frog boiling is true of any service. Adding ads is going to be a measure of how real people tolerate ads more than anything about ChatGPT. Normal people really don't care that much and it bothers me—and probably most of HN. |
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| ▲ | logifail 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | > ChatGPT has mindshare but that's not the same as it being a moat. Short answer: For a casual user using the chat interface, there is almost no moat. Long answer: there are either zero or negligible - switching costs ("would take me weeks to migrate all my files from Google Drive to Dropbox") - network effects ("can't leave Whatsapp, all my friends are there") - ecosystem lock-in ("I can't switch from iPhone to Android, my other devices would break (iMessage/iCloud/AirPods))" Right now AI is pretty much a commodity. |
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