| ▲ | Doge 'doesn't exist' with eight months left on its charter(reuters.com) |
| 68 points by the_mitsuhiko 2 hours ago | 38 comments |
| |
|
| ▲ | TheAceOfHearts an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| I knew some people that were initially very optimistic, and I tried to keep an open mind when DOGE got started despite the outlandish claims that they would be able to cut $2 trillion dollars from the budget, but it's apparent at this point that the project has been an extreme failure. It'll probably take a few years to really sort out their damage and overall impact though. It's also imperative to mention in every DOGE-related discussion and conversation that the funding freeze to USAID is directly responsible for killing thousands of people [0]. Most of the damage done by DOGE can probably be reversed, but the thousands of death as a direct result of actions taken by the richest man in the world should not be forgotten. (Although I'm told there is a bit of uncertainty with any specific figures because the funding disruption also impacted the mechanisms for tracking and reporting deaths.) [0] https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-new-yorker-documentary... |
| |
| ▲ | phantasmish 20 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Any “we’re going to fix waste in the government and reduce the deficit” project that doesn’t lead with “… so first we’re going to review the last twenty years of recommendations from the CBO and GAO and start implementing what they say or imply we should do to meet those goals” is almost certainly bullshit. Being optimistic about this one was one of those “having a mind so open your brain falls out” sorts of things. | | |
| ▲ | estearum 2 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Yep. There’s an entire catalog already built of deeply researched inefficiencies in the government. What a shame that DOGE burned a huge portion of this generation’s willingness to take a bold approach to said inefficiencies. Similar efforts will be tainted for years. |
| |
| ▲ | denkmoon an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It is not remotely a failure. As a vessel for achieving project 2025 goals, the clear purpose of DOGE, it was successful. It's just that the successes it achieved are reprehensible. | | |
| ▲ | gmd63 39 minutes ago | parent [-] | | That was not the clear purpose of DOGE. The Trump campaign deliberately distanced itself from Project 2025. If they had been honest about their intent to enact Project 2025 to voters, they would have lost. | | |
| ▲ | FireBeyond 34 minutes ago | parent [-] | | It was the clear purpose. It just wasn't the openly described purpose. | | |
| ▲ | mmmm2 26 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Agreed. Anyone with a modicum of common sense knew this was the plan all along. It's not like it was hard to find people saying this before the election. | |
| ▲ | gmd63 30 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | No, it wasn't clear. I know several Trump voters who either didn't know Project 2025 existed or believed the lies that it was a liberal hoax. To anyone paying an ounce of attention, yeah it might have been clear. | | |
| ▲ | JojoFatsani 28 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Ignorant voters do not excuse the actions of elected officials | | |
| ▲ | gmd63 21 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I'm not excusing elected officials. I would go further and blame Vivek Ramaswamy for playing a huge part in pitching the failed DOGE. I'm just pointing out that the Trump admin deliberately lied about its connection to Project 2025, which made DOGE's connection unclear to people who consume Fox News etc. People are downing my comment for suggesting that many people who don't take the internet straight into their veins every day might have had a hard time connecting the dots between DOGE and Project 2025. | | |
| ▲ | phantasmish 4 minutes ago | parent [-] | | All they had to do was skim any decent daily, weekly, or monthly newspaper or news magazine in 2024. Folks whose only news sources are Facebook shares and Fox News are simply stupid. The reason they don’t know WTF is going on may be due to their news sources, but they chose those. That’s a really stupid thing to do. |
|
| |
| ▲ | phantasmish 13 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | I know people who didn’t know the government had shut down until more than two weeks into it (and on discovering it were like “oh shit this might affect us!” because their whole lifestyle depends on money from the government). The same people didn’t know the east wing had been torn down until a couple weeks after it happened. In both cases they only found out when my wife told them. They pay attention to lots of “news” but it’s AI videos of mass crimes and viral “look how bad democrats are” garbage. That people are dense motherfuckers (can we stop sugar coating how stupid these people are if they’re surprised about any of these things? I mean dumb as a bag of hammers kinds of dumb, dimmest bulb in a box of broken bulbs, that level of dumb) doesn’t mean this wasn’t clear. It is 100% these morons’ own fault they’re surprised. |
|
|
|
| |
| ▲ | wonderwonder an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | "the funding freeze to USAID is DIRECTLY responsible for killing thousands of people" - emphasis mine "(Although I'm told there is a bit of uncertainty with any specific figures because the funding disruption also impacted the mechanisms for tracking and reporting deaths.)" Come on man... | | |
| ▲ | TheAceOfHearts 16 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | From the article I linked: > Brooke Nichols, the Boston University epidemiologist and mathematical modeller, has maintained a respected tracker of current impact. The model is conservative, assuming, for example, that the State Department will fully sustain the programs that remain. As of November 5th, it estimated that U.S.A.I.D.’s dismantling has already caused the deaths of six hundred thousand people, two-thirds of them children. Which links to Impact Counter [0], if you want to read more on how they reached those figures. I think it's fair to say with absolute certainty that thousands of people have died as a direct result of dismantling USAID, but that we aren't certain of the exact magnitude. One model estimated it's around 600 thousand, but we don't have exact figures because of the disruptions. Do you think there's a way this could be communicated more clearly? I'm not trying to be deceptive in how I present this information, and I could be persuaded to re-evaluate the exact figure if presented with a better analysis. [0] https://www.impactcounter.com/dashboard?view=table&sort=inte... | |
| ▲ | mintplant 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The implication is that the death toll is under-reported due to the disruption of the means by which those deaths would be reported and logged. In other words, those thousands of deaths are just the ones we know about. | |
| ▲ | alwa 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I’m not totally sure what point you’re making, but I don’t see an inconsistency between the two portions of comment that you quoted here. “Thousands of people” covers at least 3 orders of magnitude, depending how loose you get with the language… I don’t see the contradiction in “the error bands are wider without the high-fidelity surveillance, but even from fuzzier sources, the absolute minimum is definitely in the thousands.” | |
| ▲ | danparsonson 25 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's what honest discourse looks like. |
|
|
|
| ▲ | sys_64738 26 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| These people stole all the DBs and stored them on insecure systems and in the cloud. I am expecting all these individuals or connected individuals to immediately be seized and jailed by an Executive Order from the next Democrat President. A lot of people need to serve long prison sentences and these guys are prime candidates. |
|
| ▲ | kennywinker an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Did they revoke credentials on their way out the door, or is there now just a squadron of elon’s minions who have keys to federal gov systems? |
| |
| ▲ | evan_ 20 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Whether they revoked the credentials or not there are certainly unauthorized copies on usb drives and cloud servers. |
|
|
| ▲ | Waterluvian an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The more distressing part of this obvious policy mistake is that if any remaining journalist attempts to take the administration to task on this failure, they’ll just be called a disgusting piggy and scolded for having the gall to bring it up. |
|
| ▲ | enraged_camel an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| A friend who works for a three letter agency said that they received orders from DOGE literally today so I’m not sure I believe this Reuters story. |
| |
|
| ▲ | __loam an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This was all incredibly illegal and anyone involved in this should see the inside of a cell for a very long time. E: if you disagree with me, you need to familiarize yourself with congressional budget allocation, the impoundment act, and federal data privacy laws. DOGE did not have the unilateral authority to do basically anything it tried to do and we have yet to hold anyone accountable for trying to subvert the will of the people. |
| |
| ▲ | astrange 12 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | One of the random 19-year-olds they hired (whose nickname is "BigBalls") previously worked selling VPN services to a cybercriminal group ("the Com") whose activities involved extorting children for CSAM and then blackmailing them into committing suicide on livestream. So, there's more to go after if anyone cares to. | |
| ▲ | macintux 29 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | That’s effectively the entire executive branch in this administration: take illegal actions until the courts stop us, and then do it some more. | | |
|
|
| ▲ | xrd 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The shitty lesson here is that this crime will never be remembered as a crime, but as a missed opportunity. This will mean it will happen again. The people that perpetrated this will learn they can attempt more of this without consequence, and then slither back to silicon valley and be high-fived by the meritocracy bros. Oh, the irony. |
|
| ▲ | apical_dendrite 35 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| DOGE represents all the worst aspects of startup culture. These guys saw all the existing expertise in the federal government as lazy, stupid, old-fashioned, and wasteful, and they thought that they were basically supermen - smarter, harder working, infused with AI superpowers. So they ripped up institutions that have been built at great public cost over generations. These institutions deal with incredibly complex real-world problems. But the DOGE people thought that with AI they could make better decisions in a few seconds than people with decades of experience. The results were pretty much what you would expect. Much of what they trashed was valuable, even lifesaving. (USAID is the prime example). Destroying it saved the US government a relative pittance (the US government spent more money in 2025 than 2024) but the human cost was enormous. Imagine being a young political leader in a developing country. You've grown up thinking favorably about the US because of the positive engagement we've made with your country - not just humanitarian aid, but also elites in your country have gone to school in the US and felt welcomed here. Now, you've just seen that the US will abandon all its promises to you in a heartbeat and leave your country with a humanitarian catastrophe. Why would you ever see the US favorably? Or imagine that you're a small business owner who provided some valuable product or service to the US government. You've made business plans based on the understanding that the US government is a reliable customer. Then an AI told a 23 year old with no experience in your field that your contract was wasteful. The DOGE guys will move on to other cushy startup jobs. They'll make a ton of money in their careers. The rest of us will be left to deal with the fallout. |
| |
| ▲ | chris_wot 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Which is why we need to get a list of names of all the DOGE guys. There wasn't many of them. | |
| ▲ | marcus_holmes 7 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | This has been everyone else's experience of the Trump regime, as well. Here in Australia we've been "America's Poodle" for generations, enthusiastically joined in on every war and bizarre colonial adventure that the USA has started. And then we get slapped with tariffs and insulted by the President. Our politicians are slowly grappling with the new reality that the USA is not our friend and ally any more. Europe has a similar experience. No longer is the West "shoulder to shoulder" fighting the authoritarian regimes and defending shared values. Suddenly Europe is not an ally, possibly an economic enemy, and is being insulted by the President. The damage that the last 9 months have done to the USA's standing with the rest of the world is unbelievable. As has been said before; Trump may not be a Russian agent, but it's hard to see what a Russian agent would have done differently. And that includes DOGE - ripping up government institutions that have taken decades to build is not a productive measure, it's destructive. It's what the USA's enemies would do to it if they could. |
|
|
| ▲ | FridayoLeary 21 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| They were taking up way too much attention and drama. Trump doesn't like that. Also politics got in the way of making any real savings. It's main legacy will be of dismantling much of the progressive infrastructure of the federal government. It's a pity because the deficit is very high. The current rationalisation is that tarriffs and a 2% yearly growth will cut the deficit to zero by the 2030s. That prediction is.... very optimistic. |
|
| ▲ | wonderwonder an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Isn't it the ultimate task for any good efficiency routine to delete itself? |
| |
| ▲ | jeremyjh 40 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Considering what it accomplished, it would have been even more efficient if it had never happened. | |
| ▲ | __loam an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Let's not get cute when we're describing an organization that violated the impoundment act and data privacy laws to such an extreme degree, in addition to causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands if not millions of people due to the impoundment of USAID resources. While Elon was waving a chainsaw around, children were starving while the food meant for them rotted in a pallet. | |
| ▲ | seattle_spring an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Wouldn't it need to actually accomplish something first? | |
| ▲ | FireBeyond 33 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | And yet the USG has spent $400B more since DOGE, not $2T less. How's that "efficient"? | | |
| ▲ | phantasmish 9 minutes ago | parent [-] | | It’ll be very surprising if DOGE per se didn’t cost money, rather than save it, by the time lawsuits and extra costs incurred by their interrupting things that shouldn’t have been interrupted are accounted for. |
|
|