>> Wayland compositors are still not as full-featured as X11 desktop environments

It depends what features you care about. X11 doesn't have tear-free video playback, HDR, or as good a security model as Wayland.

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toast0 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

X11 has options for tear free video playback; it's not in the base protocol, and not all drivers offer it, etc, but it's acheivable. Fundamentally, you need to send the next frame to the server and ask it to switch frames during vblank (+/- notification), on today's systems, this is more of a coordination problem than a technical one; there's plenty of video ram to go around to double/tripple buffer.

HDR would fit in the X11 model of many bit depths, however the specifics don't really; afaik, X11 has a maximum bitdepth of 32 for pixel values, which means either limiting to 2-bits of alpha channel or using palettes (I think I saw that indexed colors can be defined with 16-bits per channel). An extension might be possible (with everything that brings), but I think the ship has sailed.

I agree that Wayland's security model prevents some undesirable interactions that X11 allows, but it also prevents or makes difficult some desirable interactions, so it's a mixed bag.

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Imustaskforhelp 5 days ago | parent [-]

> I agree that Wayland's security model prevents some undesirable interactions that X11 allows, but it also prevents or makes difficult some desirable interactions, so it's a mixed bag.

That is so true, I wanted to have a typing sound from my pc everytime I typed on wayland and I looked at LITERALLY every single solution and none of them worked... simply because of the security model of wayland (so things like Mechvibes and alternatives don't work generally speaking)

On one hand, its a good thing to prevent things like password injection etc. but on the other, really?

I got frustrated and I created a lot of github issues on every such project if they said that they are working on wayland and I didn't care if it meant running it as sudo, I just asked them kindly if there was a way or not/ what's the issue here

There are still times where I get a lot of notifications simply because someone commented on those issues

So naturally a lot of people are/were frustrated about it. Not sure if its a good thing or not, but I 100% agree about this comment of yours

Another big issue imo to me feels like ssh, X servers ssh forwarding/vnc just works, Yet I haven't really found ways to do things like VNC on wayland on a server or something as easy (or even possible?) on wayland as compared to x servers, Please let me know if there are apps which do this though, I know about weston but I haven't found ways to work with it/make it work (maybe my skill issue)

Are there any solutions to these things though? Fundamentally that mechvibes things requires an app to view the key from every other application and make a sound, Nothing stops it from being a key-logger as well if it had that capability and Wayland was created with a better security model but as you say and I experienced, that security model comes up with its own compromises and I am not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing....

	▲	throwaway7486 5 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		> Another big issue imo to me feels like ssh, X servers ssh forwarding/vnc just works, Yet I haven't really found ways to do things like VNC on wayland on a server or something as easy (or even possible?) on wayland as compared to x servers Waypipe[0] for native Wayland applications, and if you need to forward X11 apps there's xwayland-satellite[1]. You can hook xwayland-satellite with Waypipe and forward X11 apps through Waypipe. This way you get even better performance than with traditional X11 forwarding methods. The other day I was playing Steam/Proton games through the network this way. Of course, X11 forwarding also works fine on Wayland with ssh -X, but as I said, consider Waypipe + xwayland-satellite. [0] - https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mstoeckl/waypipe/ [1] - https://github.com/Supreeeme/xwayland-satellite
	▲	prmoustache 5 days ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		> Another big issue imo to me feels like ssh, X servers ssh forwarding/vnc just works, Yet I haven't really found ways to do things like VNC on wayland on a server or something as easy (or even possible?) on wayland as compared to x servers, waypipe just works too. That replaces any reason to do SSH forwarding. Also some desktop like Gnome (maybe KDE has similar feature?) offer remote desktop. In Gnome's case it is using RDP protocol instead of VNC.
	▲	toast0 5 days ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		With the caveat that I haven't used Wayland ... [1] Waypipe is supposed to help replace things like remote X. I'd be surprised if there's no vnc server that offers a wayland desktop... that would be a big missed opportunity. For your noisemaker, I think you might have a better time integrating at another level. Either intercept the inputs before the display server gets them, or integrate into the display server itself. X was more flexible, but as long as it's just typing -> noise, you don't need it to have the same architecture as it did in X. [1] Wayland has no compelling features for me, and X remains viable for me as well. At some point, hardware support might be compelling, or IMHO, something will come to replace Wayland and X that is compelling.
	▲	yjftsjthsd-h 5 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> Another big issue imo to me feels like ssh, X servers ssh forwarding/vnc just works, Yet I haven't really found ways to do things like VNC on wayland on a server or something as easy (or even possible?) on wayland as compared to x servers, Yes, this should be workable, assuming your compositor is compatible (a meaningful caveat, but not insurmountable): * To forward one application like `ssh -X`, you want waypipe * For VNC, it really depends on your compositor, but wayvnc works for many of them. (And GNOME does their own thing and I think KDE has their own official option)

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jitl 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I remember watching tear free HD video in 2011 on a netbook I dug out of the e-waste dumpster in the UC Berkeley CS building basement. Chrome/Openbox/X11. That laptop was literally trash.

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mikkupikku 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Using a compositor fixes screen tearing, no need to use Wayland for that.

	▲	phkahler 6 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		>> Using a compositor fixes screen tearing, no need to use Wayland for that. Right, and that abandons the whole X drawing API in favor of passing around client drawn bitmaps. That was one of the big points of Wayland too - X has a whole bunch of stuff that no modern apps use anyway so lets throw it out and build up a better version of the capabilities we need. If we abandon the X drawing API and half an OS included (memory management) and use KMS, all that's left is the features that are security holes.
	▲	marmight 5 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Even a compositor is unnecessary to fix screen tearing these days: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests...