H1Bs are slave labor and the program is used primarily by sweat shop consultancies who pay them less than Americans. This will be incredible for Americans looking for work. They don't have to compete with artificially cheap workers.

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dragonwriter 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> This will be incredible for Americans looking for work.

No, it won’t, jobs (especially local jobs) aren’t a fixed commodity that are going to get filled. This will kill jobs overall, and result in more of the jobs (including jobs that didn't take H-1Bs to fill but were associated with businesses that had such positions) that remain being outside of the US as a direct result, and those direct US job losses will knock-on effects that will kill even more US jobs.

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Aurornis 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> H1Bs are slave labor

How did we get to a point where people casually call H1B tech workers often earning $120K or more “slave labor”?

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0xy 4 hours ago | parent [-]

When their identically leveled peers earn $300k.

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darth_avocado 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There is not a single company where US citizens that are identically leveled peers are paid $300k where H1bs are paid $120k. Places where citizens get paid $300k, H1Bs are making the same money because it’s illegal to to discriminate based on nationality or visa status when it comes to pay.

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rkomorn 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

And, corollary: the places that pay their H1Bs crap also pay everyone else crap, because they are run by greedy people who try to tilt the entire business in their favor.

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8note 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

while its true that at hiring time, companies have to pay the same, any visa is friction to changing job, so the h1 salaries will lag behind citizen and greencard holders' pay

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darth_avocado 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Nah. The “friction” is overstated. H1Bs face the same labor conditions as rest of the folks. When the market is great, you can shop around and make a lot of money. When the market is bad and you stay put, most of the other employees are doing the same. The caveat: I’m not talking about the consultancies that abuse the system, which we can all agree are bad and their employees usually will have a hard time finding other roles.

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sarchertech 2 hours ago | parent [-]

If you get fired or laid off, you only have 60 days to find a new job or be deported. Also depending on where you are in the green card process, you can lose your place.

This creates an incentive for H-1B workers to tolerate working conditions that American workers wouldn't.

	▲	darth_avocado an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Again, if you have terrible work conditions, you as an H1B have the same options as US citizens. You look for a different job and maybe suck it up for a couple of months, just like a US citizen would. And while yes, if have an ongoing green card process which takes 12-18 months, you may have an incentive to stick around to see it to completion, anyone who has their I-140, does not actually “lose their place” in the green card process. They can file for a new I140 and retain their place in the queue by retaining the priority date from the previous application. If you think US citizens don’t stick around for a bit in a shitty job for a variety of reasons, then you’d be lying. People (including US citizens) don’t just quit jobs whenever they want without a plan like you’re making it sound. At least not ones that carry a reasonable wage, health insurance and other benefits. Again, all with the caveat of me not talking about consulting firms, which obviously don’t exactly have the best workplace environments.

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Cheer2171 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Even assuming that is true, is that unfair? Yes. Unjust? Yes. Exploitative? Yes. Racist? Usually. But slavery? Absolutely not.

Or give me your definition of slavery.

	▲	EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Slavery is a spectrum. H1B are more enslaved than natives, because they have less freedom to quit, change jobs, argue with their superiors etc.

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thisisit 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As I posted in another thread people seem to be stuck on this point.

Lets agree - some H1B was exploited by sweat shop consultancies who pay less than Americans. And this might be incredible for Americans looking for work.

But in what world does this kind of policy implementation is justified? How is this a functioning bureaucracy in a functioning democracy where people can suffer like this?

	▲	happytoexplain 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Exactly. At this point, I think American businesses need to be forced back toward hiring Americans at legal gunpoint, with the exception of extremely high-skill immigrants (we still need to attract brains). But of course there was never a chance in hell this administration could implement such a complex thing without glaring holes, incompetence, and cruelty.

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rjh29 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When I think of slavery I usually think of working for free, not H1B tech worker salaries which are insanely high on a global scale. It's also something people actively sign up for.

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8organicbits 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

To echo a sibling comment: freedom, not salary, is under question. Agreement should not be given one time at sign up, it needs to be given continuously. High cost associated with being compelled to leave the country upon quitting, low mobility between employers, etc. reduce that freedom.

Worth reading about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labour, it's not just the practice of chattel slavery, and various forms are still legal in the US.

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brazukadev 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The free part of slavery is about freedom, not payment. It was not uncommon for enslaved people to buy their way out of enslavement.

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Aurornis 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The defining feature of slavery is the involuntary part of it.

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seadan83 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Quick googling (could be wrong), thousands bought freedom, approx 4 million were enslaved. It would have been uncommon, ballpark 0.1% (which still seems high to me. The issue is a very large denominator)

	▲	sarchertech 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Slavery was around long before the US existed. In Ancient Rome it was much more common for slaves to buy their way out of slavery..

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sylens 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The order allows for exemptions at the executive’s discretion. Aka, the biggest companies will bend the knee and get their way

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Muromec 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What you are replying to is a not even a critique of the policy itself, so defending it is a bit misdirected on your part