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zmmmmm 5 days ago

I do think we're in for a bit of a reality check on how human attention works.

I have a HUD in my car that shows me directions, speed etc and when I'm looking at that the rest of the view out the windscreen is hardly even there to my visual perception even though I'm looking right at it. This seems to be getting largely overlooked but I feel like over time statistics are going to emerge that HUD type displays are increasing accidents rather than preventing them.

Youden 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

You mean a HUD projected on the windshield itself? That's not my experience with it at all; I don't have to "look at" it, when my eyes are focused on the road in front of me, the HUD is sharp enough and positioned so that I always know my speed etc. without having to actively look for it.

Your car might have settings to adjust it somehow, have you tried those?

gpderetta 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Same. In fact it is significantly better and less distracting than having to glance at the dashboard. Owning a car with a HUD, I definitely miss it in other cars.

I recently hired a car where I had to duck under the steering wheel to check my speed!

dostick 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Next time adjust steering wheel position so it doesn’t obstruct

stetrain 5 days ago | parent [-]

That is sometimes hard to achieve depending on the car and your height.

gpderetta 5 days ago | parent [-]

To be fair, I didn't even try.

NamlchakKhandro 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Steering Wheel?

wahhhh? is this real life.

Here in the future we use our thoughts.

numpad0 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Not necessarily disagreeing, but I'm not sure automotive HUD technically qualifies as one.

Airplane HUDs occupy center of the vision, literally showing where you're going. Car HUDs don't, and instead stay out of sight, as it's illegal to do in cars what they do in planes. That makes car HUDs just heads down display that happens to be transparent.

hatsunearu 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Well for cars, you do need to be on the active lookout for pedestrians, other cars, etc, but for planes generally you are mostly looking at instruments. You only really look outside if you expect something is coming, and the HUD isn't really a distraction there.

5 days ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
ryukoposting 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A HUD reduces the difference in focus distance between "looking at road" and "looking at speedometer." It matters more as you get older, because your eyes focus slower.

armadsen 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Yep. My new car has a digital rear view mirror. You flip a switch and the rear view mirror becomes a screen showing a feed from a camera on the back of the car. It’s nice for night time as well as when the rear window is blocked by rear seat passengers’ heads, or cargo or whatever.

But it’s uncomfortable for me because it requires my eyes to refocus from distant to close and back when I glance at it, which isn’t needed with an actual mirror. So I don’t use the feature.

aikinai 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Once I had a rental car (a Nissan) that only had a screen instead of a mirror. It was absolutely useless since the resolution and dynamic range were too low, and as you mentioned, you have to change your focal distance which drastically increases time/friction to check the mirror.

I found myself actually using the incidental reflection on the surface of the screen instead of the actual pixels. I can't believe this arrangement is legal.

arcanemachiner 5 days ago | parent [-]

Should have just taped a mirror over it. What a ridiculous use of technology!

m463 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Wonder why they don't optically refocus the display at a distance?

There are ways to do stuff like this.

Kirth 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

The people working on these things likely don't use the end product.

m463 5 days ago | parent [-]

lol, probably the bane of every industry.

imp0cat 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Since we are talking about car companies, it's cost-cutting, probably.

murderfs 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I had an old mazda3 (2014) with a little pop up plastic screen HUD, and it was focused at some distance significantly greater than the distance between my head and the screen.

numpad0 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Like a light field display? ...

Krssst 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Somewhat unrelated, but this discussion made me go from "I don't see what I would need something that tells me tomatoes are tomatoes" (though realtime translation looks very useful), to kinda wanting it only to have a figher plane HUD-like display all the time (to be clear, minus all the fighting parts). Almost useless (at least the attitude and vertical speed part) but would feel kinda cool. Can see some value in having the heading all the time, and speed display to motivate myself to walk faster. (well they have directions which provides much more value than all that).

Though I don't feel comfortable having more Meta in my life.

everdrive 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

If you have a nice old-fashioned speedometer you don't need to read it, you can just glance at the angle which will work well for poor focus.

drdaeman 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Isn't it a general rule of driving (or operating any sufficiently dangerous machinery) to keep the eyes on the road, constantly reminding oneself to do so, so the attention is kept where it is needed? I mean, in theory. In practice, I see people deep in their damn phones all the time - and it's scary - but I think that's more of an attitude (social) issue than a display (technology) problem.

And, yes, surely, one needs to periodically switch attention to mirrors and instruments, and I must imagine that shorter gaze movement distance shouldn't hurt. It's the same as checking the speedometer - you don't see the road, only have a rough idea from the peripheral vision.

Although I can imagine that a HUD can be actively distracting, constantly intercepting attention, e.g., flickering.

jfim 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

I have one in my car and it's not distracting. It basically displays the current speed, the speed limit, the current cruise control state, the current gear (PRND), and the current navigation instruction (eg. turn left in 1.5 miles).

It doesn't display notifications or other distractions, nor is it possible to configure it to do so.

It's not flickering when viewed in person, but when filmed with a phone camera they do flicker due to how the display works.

It's a pretty good system, and allows one to keep their eyes on the road without having to look at other screens, and keeping ones eyes focused on far objects.

tsimionescu 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think the point is that it's much easier to forget you're focusing on the speedometer instead of focusing on the road when the speedometer is physically displayed by a HUD right on the road. Especially if the speedometer keeps changing, since your eyes are naturally attracted to movement in your current field of view.

With a normal car dashboard, you're much more aware you're not seeing the road while checking your speed, and you don't actually see the speedometer moving while you're looking at the road, so it can't accidentally catch your attention.

Of course, none of this will matter in the vast majority of cases. But driving safety is all about the tail end, when you're slightly tired or when someone in front of you does something unexpected and maybe illegal, or someone jumps on the road - these are the times where accidents are avoided, and a HUD might well hurt rather than help for these cases.

spike021 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

My 2025 Corolla has a HUD and it doesn't flicker. it's also fairly minimal and very easy to keep in peripheral vision such that while looking at traffic and such, I can still grasp what it's saying without messing up my attention.

FuriouslyAdrift 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Eye tracking and depth of field adjustments are the missing pieces. A HUD has to be able to stay in the same focal range as what is viewed beyond it so you don't lose concentration on the task at hand.

In fighter jets, they project onto the visor. Obviously not the most convenient method for an automobile. There have been attemtps to figure out depth of field but it's tough. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00304...

ludicrousdispla 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"Change blindness" is how this is characterized in the research field. Basically any abrupt change in your visual field will prevent you from seeing another change on the road.

http://nivea.psycho.univ-paris5.fr/#CBdemos

thefz 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Even less is needed to generate danger: I found myself checking my phone twice during a car trip because when listening to music through the USB-C to Jack dongle, it believes I am blasting music at full volume through my ears and decides to cut off the volume to 10% after 20 minutes.

Don't, and I mean DON'T decide things for the user.

Tepix 5 days ago | parent [-]

Can't you let your phone know that the USB-C is not connected to headphones?

Someone 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think there’s plenty of evidence that they’re better in jet fighters (where users are well-trained), possible also in automotive (where they have been sold for decades; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_head-up_display), but of course, it will depend on the design of the HUD and on what it displays.

Extreme example: showing random ads every ten minutes, even if the glasses c/should suspect you’re driving a car. I have my doubts as to whether Meta will make the right choices here.

nirav72 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not sure HUDs in cars will cause same issues. There aren't a lot of things to read on car HUDs that require direct concentrated focus. Every HUD I've seen have displayed the most minimal information. Usually the speed, map directions and media currently playing. Even the map directions usually only indicate the next step in route. So a quick glance is all that is required. Regular dashboard gauges require far more concertation. Especially if you're new to that specific vehicle.

cbsmith 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What's amusing is the original use case for HUD displays was to reduce attention problems. ;-)

croes 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There is a difference between status information like speed and directions and messages from other people.

Your attention reacts differently

nirav72 3 days ago | parent [-]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a windshield projected HUD showing notifications. Let’s hope that never gets added.

immibis 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Is this a physical or mental focus thing?

As in, are you just concentrating on the speedometer instead of the road, or do your eyeballs have to adjust because the optics aren't set correctly? I believe a HUD is supposed to focus at infinity, same as a road that's many times farther away than the size of your eyeballs.

fraboniface 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"The World Beyond Your Head" from Matthew Crawford is exactly about this. Definitely recommend reading!

teepo 5 days ago | parent [-]

Thanks for the tip. I added this to my audio book queue.

It's pretty interesting how today's cars come with features like remote braking and monitoring cameras, all designed to make driving less demanding for us. So as these researchers work to make vehicles less distracting, these cool features somehow end up making us even more distracted. It's an ironic cycle that leaves you more distracted, and maybe more unsafe.

creaghpatr 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Meanwhile, I saw someone using their windshield mounted phone to watch videos while sitting in traffic yesterday (and driving erratically as a result which led me to notice). The self-driving cars can't come soon enough.

kevin_thibedeau 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Is this an aftermarket device that doesn't project to infinity or a purpose designed feature from the manufacturer? The former is not a real HUD for the reasons you cite.