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| ▲ | kminehart 19 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Finding a laptop that works well is annoying, however. It doesn't exist at the moment. :\ I would pay 2x the price of a macbook for a linux laptop with the same hardware quality. The battery life and power/efficiency of my m4 pro is insane. It's so good that it's really hard to justify using anything else right now. | | |
| ▲ | bombcar 18 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It's sad that the best Linux laptop right now arguably is a M4 Mac virtualizing Linux. | | |
| ▲ | lylo 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Framework? | | |
| ▲ | herewulf 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I wanted to post this myself because I swear by my Framework 13 and it's my workhorse. However, it doesn't hold a candle to my wife's M3 Pro on a number of metrics mentioned here such as: Battery life, screen quality, and overall performance. The Framework (Intel 12th Gen) also has the added benefit of heating the house, particularly with graphics "heavy" workloads (lots of windows open in GNOME Mutter, VMs, etc). | |
| ▲ | geerlingguy 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Framework is nice but it's far from Apple's laptop hardware quality. The biggest draw of the Framework is its modularity. | | |
| ▲ | dsego 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Based on my framework 13 and macbook m1, I think the only downgrade are the speakers and the trackpad. The keyboard is actually an upgrade, the 2.8k screen has a better size ratio but the contrast is not as good, I'd say it's decent. The trackpad performs well but it's the old hinged design and not haptic. Being able to service my own laptop, replace parts and max out the storage for less money than a mid-spec macbook is just unbelievable. |
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| ▲ | treesknees 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Why not run it natively with Asahi Linux? | | |
| ▲ | Everdred2dx 17 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Well limiting to specifically OP's example (M4 Mac), Asahi doesn't support it yet. :( | |
| ▲ | crossroadsguy 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Is Asahi installed side by side on a mac? You pick it at boot? And how “install and just use” it is? | | |
| ▲ | neobrain 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Is Asahi installed side by side on a mac? Yes, the installer automatically (and reliably) resizes partitions for you. A minimum of about 70 GB for macOS is needed (anything lower is still possible but unsupported). > You pick it at boot? There's a default choice that will boot. > And how “install and just use” it is? Probably one of the smoothest Linux installs I've had in 10 years or so, since you just run the installer from macOS instead of flashing ISO files to an USB drive. |
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| ▲ | Wowfunhappy 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Asahi Linux doesn't support the M3 or M4. That said, I'd be curious why OP doesn't consider Asahi on M2 to be a good option. AFAIK the only thing missing at this point is Thunderbolt and USB-C display output (HDMI out works fine). | | |
| ▲ | zenmac 35 minutes ago | parent [-] | | There are a few draw backs. dnf for arm linux doesn't support Tor Browser yet!! Power saving was quite bad when I tried a few month back. When on sleep mode, it drains more battery than on MacOS sleep mode. There are a few other compile/transpile bugs here and there.... but I'm rooting for the it!!! Hopefully they can get sorted out soon. |
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| ▲ | truncate 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | IIRC, there bunch of random things that still don't work -- no USB-C output, webcam, audio and if I've to guess suspend/resume is probably not rock solid either. The only benefit is that you get to use Linux, but then you may lose on actually getting work done without worrying about these issues. The new UI is inferior, but can still get things done. | | |
| ▲ | neobrain 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This information is very dated. Webcam/audio work fine nowadays, and suspend/resume have never had issues that I recall. IME the feature support page is very accurate (no hidden gotchas like "technically it works but it breaks after sleep"). USB-C output is indeed not working but actively making progress (so actively that some of the related patches have been sent to the kernel mailing list and merged this very week). | |
| ▲ | Wowfunhappy 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Webcam and audio both work now. I can't speak to how solid suspend/resume is because I haven't actually used it--I just follow the project--but I wouldn't necessarily assume it's flaky. |
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| ▲ | ohdeargodno 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Asahi is only supporting M1, and partly M2 I believe. M3 was enough of a change that there are no drivers for it. |
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| ▲ | risho 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | this is a psychotic question but have you actually tried doing that? like using a macbook as a vessel for running linux under parallels as a primary use? | | |
| ▲ | prmoustache 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I guess if you autostart the linux VM upon booting this should work. I am doing actually the same with BeOS but using a Linux as the hardware compatibility layer. Linux distro is configured to autologin to sway which starts a VM and run it fullscreen. The guest VM is configured to use all the laptop ram leaving only 1GB for the host. In the second virtual desktop the pulseaudio volume control, wifi and bluetooth management tools are automatically open so I can easily plug a BT headphone, switch network. The linux distro automatically shutdown if I shutdown the VM. I am using swaylock to lock the screen when I am away. | |
| ▲ | bombcar 36 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I haven't done Linux (I have servers and such and "got used" to macOS enough for my needs) but I did in ages past do something very similar with Windows on Parallels on Intel Macs. | |
| ▲ | qwertypig250 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | kaladin-jasnah 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm hoping maybe the Qualcomm laptops make some progress on battery life. I had an LG gram that had honestly surprisingly good battery life on Linux, and maybe the ThinkPads are good too. | | |
| ▲ | TuringNYC 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Well the Qualcomm SnapDragon chips literally compete on operations-per-watt. But it depends on what you need -- raw horsepower with a mostly tethered laptop or on-the-go freedom. | | |
| ▲ | skydhash 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I found that I’m missing the netbook era. I need some 11inch laptop when I’m on the go for email, writing, and coding. For more focused task, I’m not giving up my 2 monitors setup and my mechanical keyboard so the computer form factor matters less. |
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| ▲ | viraptor 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > The battery life and power/efficiency of my m4 pro is insane. They're coming. Look for AMD Strix Halo chips. They're in the comparably comfortable efficiency range. | | |
| ▲ | srid 17 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > AMD Strix Halo chips Do you happen to know any laptop that has a) equivalent screen quality (retina resolution), b) keyboard, c) trackpad but with full Linux support where all hardware pheripherals just work? | | |
| ▲ | STKFLT 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The ThinkPad X1 series usually have great linux support and you can option them with 2.8k@120Hz OLED panels, which at 14" lands between the Air and the 14" Pro in terms of PPI. I have a couple generations old X1 Yoga and all of the hardware worked out of the box with Manjaro and Debian, including the touchscreen and active stylus. People usually buy them for the keyboards and trackpoint, but imo the touchpad is still pretty solid. It is a bit small on account of the trackpoint buttons taking up vertical real estate but its pretty responsive and multi-touch gestures work perfectly in my experience. I believe newer ones have larger trackpads than mine, though still not as large as a similarly sized mac. | | |
| ▲ | mikepurvis 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I have a Gen 12 X1 and I'm very happy with it; huge step up over my previous Dell XPS, and all the hardware works great on the latest kernel. | |
| ▲ | two_handfuls 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Reminder that Thinkpad's makers, Lenovo, has shipped a laptop preloaded with the Superfish malware (https://easytechsolver.com/what-is-the-lenovo-controversy/) | | |
| ▲ | TheAmazingRace 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is true. However, Superfish hasn’t been relevant in years and Lenovo walked back on including such malware going forward as far as I can tell. And furthermore, Superfish didn’t affect ThinkPads. Only lower end Lenovo models. | | |
| ▲ | darkwater 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | And surely didn't affect Linux installed on it, which is the topic of the thread. | | |
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| ▲ | green7ea 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The HP zbook g1a ultra is as close as you can get with Strix Halo. There are two screen options and the OLED one is high resolution. It's Ubuntu certified as well and can run LLMs nicely. The keyboard, trackpad, etc are all to notch. It's somewhere in between a mac pro and max. I have one and love it but it's not close to my wife's mac on battery life. | | |
| ▲ | jim180 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | I've yet to understand the point of OLED, if it sits at 400nits. All Apple's devices from iPhone to Studio Display are brighter, some of them are much much brighter even with OLED :/ | | |
| ▲ | rxyz 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | Contrast and pixel response time. OLED PC monitors still look amazing even with low all-screen brightness. |
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| ▲ | scrlk 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | HP ZBook Ultra G1a? It has Strix Halo, 14" 2880x1800 (242 ppi) 120 Hz VRR OLED, and Ubuntu 24.04 options. Can't speak for the keyboard, but HP ZBooks/EliteBooks tend to be decent. | | |
| ▲ | nicolaslem an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I have this laptop with this display configuration and it looks amazing. However on Arch with Gnome/Wayland I cannot get color management to work, which is a problem since this display has such a wide gamut. Opening HN on it for the first time I was blinded by the deepest orange nav bar I could imagine. | |
| ▲ | nullpoint420 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm typing this post on the 395+ 128gb RAM model. IMO, the keyboard is better than the one in the newest Macbook Pro. Just enough travel, and quiet enough so I don't disturb co-workers when I type. I use it for development running Fedora Workstation. My job involves spinning up lots of containers and K8S KIND clusters. I often reach for it instead of my 14" M4 Macbook. However, I will choose the Macbook Pro when I know I'll be away from a charger for a while. The HP, as great as it is, still has bad battery life. | | |
| ▲ | nullpoint420 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The only downside is that the webcam _does not work_ unless you use Ubuntu 20.04 w/ the OEM kernel package. The ISP driver which will enable the camera to work is in the process of being up-streamed, though. I believe they're targeting early 2025 for mainline Linux support. | | |
| ▲ | ayewo 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | > early 2025 Is that a typo? There’s barely 4 months left in 2025. |
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| ▲ | WesolyKubeczek 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Do you feel a difference between Strix Halo and other x86 machines you could lay your hands on to date? I want one, but with an M2 Max macbook pro and Zen2 desktop it feels very hard to justify. |
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| ▲ | bigyabai an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I had a 1440p 14" Lenovo Thinkbook that ran Linux fine. Ryzen 5800u, maybe $400 seconhand IIRC. | |
| ▲ | diffeomorphism 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > retina resolution That just means 3024x1964. With other laptops you can either go up a step to 4k or down to OLED 2880xsomething. | | |
| ▲ | swiftcoder 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Unfortunately it also means a software stack that can properly scale everything for such a display. Windows and Linux both have... issues around UI scaling that make this kind of a pain. |
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| ▲ | Demiurge 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Razer Blade is my windows laptop. The hardware is great, MacBook nice, but it needs the chip efficiency. | |
| ▲ | dismalaf 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Well, the highest resolution MacBook has less than 4K resolution and there's plenty of 4K laptops out there... Most "business" centric laptops work great with Linux, as long as you use a well supported distro (Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian, openSuse). YMMV if you use other distros... | | |
| ▲ | simonask 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | I think it’s debatable whether full 4K makes any sense on a 14” or 15” screen. | | |
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| ▲ | mistercheph 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Your best option is framework IMO. The 2.8k panels are overall inferior to Apple's across a number of metrics, but they have a higher pixel density than the Air 13, (and has the S-tier aspect ratio of 3:2). The FW13 keyboard is objectively pretty decent but not perfect, and is much much better than any keyboard Apple has made in the last decade, could be personal preference but apple has been making some pretty bad keyboards for a while now. Trackpad on FW13 is OK, no one even comes close to Apple, but it's pretty decent, nothing upsetting if you're comparing it to any non-apple trackpads. Framework has excellent linux suppport, all hardware bells and whistles generally work out of the box on every Linux distro, but Fedora, Ubuntu, and Bazzite are officially supported by Framework they QA against all three and work with maintainers to resolve issues and you can be totally confident that everything will just work. (At least work as well as it would on Windows!) The other two downsides relative to a macbook are build quality and support. Although the FW13 is pretty solid in practice, I have dropped mine dozens of times and throw it in my bag and treat it overall rough and it has take on some dings and scratches but everything still works. But the frame is not very rigid, it flexes in lots of places, and it just does not feel as nice and solid as a macbook. And support can be hit-or-miss, like with any small manufacturer. | | |
| ▲ | runjake 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | I think you’re talking about Apple’s butterfly keyboards which were only around for 3-4 years of the last decade you’re talking about. Apple’s keyboards have been great for 5+ years now. | | |
| ▲ | asimovDev 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | Agreed. Only issue is that they wear down really fast. Your fingers sand them down at a mindblowing pace, and soon enough all of them are smooth, with most used keys having shiny blemishes on them | | |
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| ▲ | benoau 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The performance seems to rival Apple's Pro / Max chips but the battery life can only do that for light workloads or videos. |
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| ▲ | moralestapia 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >I would pay 2x the price of a macbook for a linux laptop with the same hardware quality. Same, and I've been wanting this for 15 years now ... | | |
| ▲ | kminehart an hour ago | parent [-] | | Before their arm64 CPUs you could get a thinkpad or an xps and not have really bad FOMO. But now... it's just not even close :\ |
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| ▲ | backscratches 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Try starlabs, best build quality I've ever seen after apple | | |
| ▲ | worthless-trash 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | what models have you used, specifically. | | |
| ▲ | backscratches an hour ago | parent [-] | | Have only owned the starbook mkvi (1 gen previous to current) since it came out 3years or so. Exhaustive research happily led me to discover it is the most Linux compatible laptop, even firmware updates can be performed natively from LVFS/fwudmgr. Knew it was the one when I learned in addition they are basically the only Linux laptop company that also produces their own hardware. Screen I wish was brighter, and while I don't care, it doesn't have as many pixels as retina. The fan is not bad, but louder than a macbook. Battery I have not tested well, it is far away from battery life of a macbook. But the coreboot firmware allows me to set the charging speed (slower is better for battery) and the max charge level (which I keep at 60% when plugged in) Trackpad is great though, and keyboard is fantastic. And all the parts are replaceable, as much as the Framework laptops. I don't know why they are not more popular. |
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| ▲ | benoau 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's messed up TBH, the only laptops competitive on battery are Qualcomm which comes with a different set of sacrifices instead! | |
| ▲ | csomar 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I've asked this question very recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44319903 Spoiler Alert: There really isn't anything that comes close to the macbook (even at 2x price). | |
| ▲ | andrepd 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's ridiculous. Thinkpads, Zephyrus G14, Framework, they all have performance, build quality, screens, battery, etc, comparable to a Mac. | | |
| ▲ | mbernstein 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Do they? So far I haven’t found anything that matches battery life, build quality, or trackpad quality. | | |
| ▲ | kminehart an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | also don't forget how quiet this thing is. | |
| ▲ | andrepd 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The G14 definitely matches in build or exceeds in build quality, keyboard, trackpad, speakers, and display. Battery life is shorter though. But it has a better GPU and supports Linux, which is way more important to me than an hour or two extra battery. The Framework is also excellent, but with different compromises: that sweet display aspect ratio for instance, but no OLED. |
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| ▲ | Theodores 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > I would pay 2x the price of a macbook for a linux laptop with the same hardware quality. How about half the price? Huawei are probably banned in the USA these days, however, the hardware quality is top notch and everything Linux works just fine out of the box. Not everything is perfect though, it all depends on what you want to do. If you are okay with integrated graphics (so no Blender or other 3D applications) but do need genuine Intel floating point single-thread performance, then give Huawei a go. I have had plenty of Dell XPS, Lenovo things and much else over the years and all of them have poor thermal management and tend to creak if you use less than four hands to pick them up. The Huawei machines are in a different league. As for battery life, I think you are right, but I am inanely loyal to genuine Intel and that means plugging in. I don't have problems with that. People do get triggered by Huawei though, because the dreaded communists will steal your soul and brainwash you into hating the American way of life. So you might want to just cover up the badging lest anyone be offended. Ironically, a Huawei Matebook X Pro running linux is the laptop that is least likely to spy on you because the camera folds down into the keyboard. |
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| ▲ | CraigJPerry 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Silverblue is very under-rated currently. I see it as a slightly more pragmatic immutable os. NixOS i keep wanting to throw in the bin randomly but i have to admit that when it all works, it's kinda beautiful to own - you can harness a lot of power for comparatively little spent in mental tax | |
| ▲ | a012 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I’ve tried Silverblue but it’s far from Mac experience, on my PC it feels sluggish and bloated. Perhaps I’m too simple but I only need a vanilla Linux just like now dead Intel Clearlinux with linux brew and Flatpak | |
| ▲ | rcarmo 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I have a couple that work quite well with it, including a very nice 10” one - https://taoofmac.com/space/reviews/2025/05/15/2230 And I run a macOS-like GNOME theme that is pretty great. | | | |
| ▲ | jlvdh 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I was using Pop!_OS and really loved it. Feature wise it would be an excellent replacement and I love the idea of running Linux. However, one day when I tried to update the Nvidia driver it failed and when I tried to revert back I got a bunch of errors. My computer is foremost a tool to me and I don't particularly enjoy nor have time for stuff like fixing drivers. Despite apple's flaws it gives me something that just works everyday. | | |
| ▲ | bityard 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Nvidia has always been a PITA on Linux, whether you're using the open source or proprietary drivers. Decent drivers, documentation, and support for their Linux community has always been somewhere between actively hostile against to barely an afterthought. Go to any Linux distro subreddit right now and browse for people experiencing stability issues, random hanging, or no video on boot. Sometimes they don't mention it upfront but it almost always turns out they have an Nvidia card. AMD and Intel GPUs have much better native open source support and (usually!) work out of the box without any effort. | |
| ▲ | shelled 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Sometimes I wonder how the Linux distro landscape would have looked if there hadn't been a new distro for a new use case or design choice or disagreement among lead devs? Could we have allocated the resources better at battling with Wi-Fi not working, USB creaking on the turns? Or those would have stayed the way they are, because these mostly come or should come from the OEMs/vendors? Would this be better for them if the onus was not to make it work on hundreds (or is it thousands?) of flavours? |
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| ▲ | macco 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | My ThinkPad P1 Gen 7 works absolutely fine. I get about 10 hours of battery life out of it. You can get it with Fedora preinstalled. In my experience, ThinkPads generally work fine. | |
| ▲ | DimmieMan 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Silverblue is great but regular Fedora is worth a look too if you don't want to deal with the teething issues of managing all your dev-tools with Silverblue's immutable setup, granted that was 2 years ago when i tried so thing's might be better now. Infuriatingly; I have a macbook because a couple years ago I wanted a laptop that just worked while keeping my familiar tools but it really feels like Linux is trending up in polish and macOS on the down with an intersect possibly happening in a couple years. | | |
| ▲ | wyclif 17 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That Apple would allow this development to happen without any reversal is astounding. If allowed to continue it could seriously damage their MacBook market share. Then again, they may not care that much as long as they have the iPhone customer base. | | |
| ▲ | codr7 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Apple was once all about creating, lately it's all about consuming. I expect the MacBook to be replaced by the iPad any second now. |
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| ▲ | nullbyte808 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | In bluefin (silverblue based) they have brew preinstalled, which helps alot. Plus now its more mac-like. |
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| ▲ | awesome_dude 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Are you using Fedora on the Mac (via Asahi)? Or are you using Fedora on an Intel/AMD laptop? | | |
| ▲ | rvrb 17 hours ago | parent [-] | | If it supported M4 I would be using it on my MacBook, but I am using a ThinkPad P14s gen 6 (AMD) right now. Some issues with suspend that I worked around with a kernel parameter but other than that, everything else worked out of the box | | |
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| ▲ | anhner 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Calling gnome's UI better than macOS, even with Tahoe, is wild. |
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