| ▲ | SoftTalker 5 days ago |
| The funny thing is, I get more done at the office than at home. And if I’m dressed professionally, I get more done and I get better responses from others than when I’m wearing shorts and a tee shirt. I’d prefer to work from home wearing pajamas but I can sympathize with why my employer wants me in the office and may even have a dress code. Be glad you didn’t work in the development office of a bank in the 1990s, you’d be expected to wear a suit and tie to work. |
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| ▲ | malfist 5 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| Okay, great. You can work from the office. Don't dictate to the rest of us that we have to work the way you work best |
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| ▲ | foogazi 5 days ago | parent [-] | | They work better with you sitting next to them /s | | |
| ▲ | RHSeeger 5 days ago | parent [-] | | You /s, but that's actually a fair point - Some people work better at home, away from the office - Some people work better in the office, with their co-workers around them Those two facts are at direct odds with each other. It's unfortunate, but you can't give both groups what they want. | | |
| ▲ | malfist 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | It's not a fair point. The same argument could be made that I work better if I also get your paycheck. - Some people work better if they get their paycheck and their coworker's paycheck
- Some people work better when each person gets their own paycheck No one is saying that's unfortunate that you can't give both groups what they want | | |
| ▲ | sokoloff 4 days ago | parent [-] | | What is happening is some
companies are choosing A and others are choosing B. Employees who really care about A will prefer companies who chose A, same for B. Employees who care more about other properties C, D, E, etc. but not much about A or B will prefer companies that provide those properties. |
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| ▲ | wiseowise 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | So when it’s my idiosyncrasy I’m supposed to shut the fuck up because it’s unprofessional, but when it aligns with whatever goals of some middle manager I’m supposed to take one for the team, because Bob the baby needs a grown up man sitting next to him? | | |
| ▲ | RHSeeger 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | No? It's not an idiosyncrasy, it's a preference/optimal work environment. And it varies by person. Stop acting like the people that are on the other side of the opinion are being childish/stupid. Nobody said you needed to stfu. Pointing out what works best for you is important in making sure the best decision is made. But, as I was trying to say, any decision that is made will be wrong for some of the people involved. | | |
| ▲ | wiseowise 4 days ago | parent [-] | | > Stop acting like the people that are on the other side of the opinion are being childish/stupid. No, people on the other side should stop acting like we’re childish/stupid.
I was born a while ago, and know how world works. No need to feed me bullshit about “culture” or “value of communication”. |
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| ▲ | HDThoreaun 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | You should find an employer that caters to your idiosyncrasy instead of your coworkers |
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| ▲ | lucketone 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There is a third group: I work better from office when all the noisy coworkers are at home. | |
| ▲ | steveBK123 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > - Some people work better in the office, with their co-workers around them it shouldn't be my problem if a coworker lacks internal locus of control | |
| ▲ | tucnak 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | The downvotes are all from guys remote-moonlighting three separate FAANG jobs, each paying out hundred grand a year. They can afford it! | | |
| ▲ | RHSeeger 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Regardless of someone's stand on the topic of remote vs in-office, I find it staggering that _anyone_ could believe that either one of them is the one-true-way. There's downsides to both and either decision is likely to make at least some of the participants unhappy. I'm firmly on the WFH end of things; I much less productive in an office. But I know other people that are better in the office with the ability to talk things over with co-workers in person. And the fact that I'm not there makes it harder for them (and easier for me; tradeoffs) | | |
| ▲ | tucnak 4 days ago | parent [-] | | The productivity is tangential at best to this matter; the discourse around WFH has long devolved into primitive drivel for/against freedom precisely because abstract "freedom" is all that Americans care about. (I don't think WFH is as big in Europe, at least based on my experience—everywhere I worked in Europe has overwhelmingly been in-office.) I get the argument that American cities are really sparse, and sometimes people have to commute a long while, etc etc. but I don't believe that it's the deciding factor. I think it's FAR simpler than that; in view of covid, all companies subscribed to WFH policy, and workers (quite naively) interpreted it as +freedom. The companies are now subscribing to RTO policies, and it's simply read as -freedom. That's it. People find it offensive whenever they're deprived of some extra options, choices, etc. It's nice not having to go to office all the time, but it's in of itself much nicer if you CAN choose not to, isn't it? In my view, that's what it boils down to. |
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| ▲ | gedy 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| So pay me enough to afford a home nearby so I can work in the office. Hell, I'll wear a suit too. Oh, I can only get enough to commute in from an exurb 1+ hour commute each way? Buzz off. Been working since the 80s, and no company has ever paid me enough to buy anything nearby.
So I gave up 15 yrs ago and now work full remote where I could afford something. |
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| ▲ | thedevilslawyer 5 days ago | parent [-] | | To be fair, we're the highest paid profession, and the work isn't that difficult either. | | |
| ▲ | grafmax 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | The owners of the companies we work for are making more money than us, off the value we create through our work, simply by through ownership itself. How’s that for compensation vs difficulty? | | |
| ▲ | sokoloff 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | If you think that’s an easier route, I doubt it’s ever been easier to found a company and own almost all of it. On this very site is a link at the bottom to apply for substantial funding and help in succeeding at a modest cost of equity. But if it’s easy enough that you don’t even need that help, you can own it all. | |
| ▲ | thedevilslawyer 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | If you believe that is the case, it is very simple to use some of that pay to buy a slice of that ownership via your preferred brokerage application. | | |
| ▲ | grafmax 4 days ago | parent [-] | | It’s a wonder that people still work for a living when all you have to do is buy a share of SPY, suddenly elevating you to same level as your boss. | | |
| ▲ | thedevilslawyer 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Well, how else are you going to buy the share? (I don't think further engaging on this would be meaningful, as the reactions are all coming from a place of prejudice to state of the world.) | | |
| ▲ | grafmax 4 days ago | parent [-] | | The state of the world is a human product. It’s something we create. We can choose to resign ourselves to it and rationalize it, or try to change it through conscious collective action. Either way we are participating in creating the world we see around us. |
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| ▲ | pjmlp 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Only if you're talking about US market. | | |
| ▲ | thedevilslawyer 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Can you call out any other market where another profession is as highly paid and accessible? | | |
| ▲ | pjmlp 4 days ago | parent [-] | | I can tell that in Portugal it is a highly paid as any office worker, meaning bad, with unpaid overtime, and until you make it into manager you're failing. Also doctors and business owners not only make it much more, there are plenty of under the table payment possibilities. I also know of offshoring countries where folks working in tourism make more in tips from foreigners that any IT worker can ever dream off. |
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| ▲ | horns4lyfe 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | And it’s still not enough to buy houses close to the offices. So something is wrong | |
| ▲ | wiseowise 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | That’s a fair statement, we should start giving blowjobs and dance like strippers to justify our salary. |
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| ▲ | kamaal 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >>Be glad you didn’t work in the development office of a bank in the 1990s, you’d be expected to wear a suit and tie to work. Priorities matter. I worked for a India IT services firm that mandated neck ties. They would even enforce it with fines. Eventually we saw the whole company had been reduced to these cosmetic pedantry about neck ties, badge-in/out times etc. Nobody every got anything done, because this was all that was left of their ideas to make the company win. |
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| ▲ | o1bf2k25n8g5 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Were bow ties acceptable? What about Bolo ties? | | |
| ▲ | RajT88 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Did women have to wear ties too? Were garish father's day ties acceptable? Was wearing a tie as a rambo style headband a firable offense at office parties? I have many questions. |
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| ▲ | ocdtrekkie 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think it depends on the task. If I need to figure out a problem someone is having, being present, seeing them work, talking face to face, huge help. When I have some engineering work to do where I know all the requirements and need to be left alone, staying home is a productivity win. There's value in the flexibility but employers often do not trust their employees to make the best decision for the organization. |
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| ▲ | moralestapia 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| >And if I’m dressed professionally, I get more done and I get better responses from others than when I’m wearing shorts and a tee shirt. Are you a butler? No offense. No one in tech would give two f...s about what you're wearing when you push git commits. |
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| ▲ | tjr 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | For some people, what they wear has an impact on their own performance. It's not necessarily about how others perceive them, and it's not necessarily logical. Some people work better with music, or with a window to look out... some people work better in fancier attire. | | |
| ▲ | wiseowise 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | If only it was possible to dress up at home… | | |
| ▲ | Aeolun 4 days ago | parent [-] | | It only works if people see you. Dressing up for sitting at home feels silly. | | |
| ▲ | wiseowise 4 days ago | parent [-] | | So everyone has to suffer because Dick the fashionista needs to show off his attire? |
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| ▲ | holowoodman 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What I wear has an influence. Ties cut off blood supply to the brain, so in fancy attire, I'm less useful. | |
| ▲ | moralestapia 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >and I get better responses from others than when I’m wearing shorts and a tee shirt. Did you not read the last part of the sentence? | |
| ▲ | wfhrto 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > music > window > fancier attire one of these things is not like the other | | |
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| ▲ | yepitwas 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I once moved to a company that still mandated relatively formal work clothes—suit and tie no longer required, but still seen fairly often. The first casual Friday I was struck now how energized I felt as soon as I walked in (and I didn’t participate, I wore slacks and a blazer that day). Reflecting on that, I realized that I actually associate jeans and such with “professional office that gets shit done”. Because that’s how it’d been everywhere else I’d worked. The “professional” dress code was having exactly the opposite effect on me, from what it was supposed to. |
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