| ▲ | electric_muse 3 days ago |
| Calling someone a complainer is corporate-speak for “they noticed the fire before leadership did.” The people who raise flags get sidelined, the cheerleaders get promoted, and then everyone wonders why the product sucks. A good manager doesn’t suppress complaints. They treat them as free QA. But that requires humility, which is in even shorter supply than good engineers. |
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| ▲ | ZaoLahma 3 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| I'm not a manager and have no aspirations at all to be one, but I have worked with plenty of "complainers". Usually what complainers complain about has nothing to do with why they are unhappy. Way too often frustration with people is pointed at circumstance rather than trying to productively sort out the conflicts between the individuals. And here is where management usually fails. A person complains about unrealistic time plans or how crappy a product will be, so management jumps into action and invent over elaborate processes around securing deadlines and quality, rather than splitting up the dysfunctional team that can't / refuses to cooperate and therefore is always late and produces sub-par quality. And the team will still be late and produce bad quality, and the complainers will still complain. |
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| ▲ | palata 3 days ago | parent [-] | | > so management jumps into action and invent over elaborate processes around securing deadlines and quality, rather than splitting up the dysfunctional team that can't / refuses to cooperate Yes, I've seen this! Then they fire the dysfunctional team, but the problem was the incompetent management. |
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| ▲ | siva7 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Spoken like from someone who never managed teams. There may be valid complaints but there may be also just difficult characters. To answer the original question: It's a bit like in romantic relationships. Trying to change personalities of others is a tough game (usually not worth it). |
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| ▲ | iambateman 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is true in some cases…but there are other people who just complain because they want attention. Good managers listen and try to understand the difference between a person complaining because they’re closer to the problem and a person complaining because they are the problem. |
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| ▲ | palata 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > there are other people who just complain because they want attention. I would say that people who complain generally do it because they are not happy. Nobody purposely do it as a way to get attention. Nobody says "I will make sure to bother everybody so that they hate me, because I love it". Doesn't mean they are not the problem: sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. So I join you on: > Good managers listen and try to understand the difference between a person complaining because they’re closer to the problem and a person complaining because they are the problem. I have seen people complain because they somehow hated their coworkers (they had a very different view of what "good code" meant). A good manager would look for a solution, like moving them in different teams. A bad manager doesn't act (it's useless to listen if you don't act on it). | |
| ▲ | rafaelmn 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Also individual contributors often fail to grasp the big picture, what seems like an insurmountable issue to them is irrelevant or not a priority in the grand scheme of things. Or it's a pain point for them - but dealing with it will hurt the project overall. Can't even count the number of development/design/product bike shedding discussions, wasted effort on covering edge cases, etc. on features/products that get scrapped once they get tested by users. This is why I hate managing people - I hate having to deal with all the egos and trying to empathize with everyone to try to get a sense of where they are coming from just to judge what's important or not, and weighing political impact of different calls. Code is simple by comparison. | | |
| ▲ | PhilipRoman 3 days ago | parent [-] | | A lot of this can be solved just by telling that to the developers. Sometimes I feel like I'm in some sort of secret don't-let-your-right-hand-know-what-your-left-hand-is-doing style organization. I was trying to meet [artificial] deadlines and putting effort into handling every corner case while a project was doomed due to external factors (lawsuit). My most productive time is when a manager is honest and willing to explain how the whole thing fits together. |
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| ▲ | Ensorceled 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is the hardest part of dealing with a chronic complainer: they think they are the only one "noticing a fire" and "getting sidelined" for raising flags. Often there isn't actually a fire, they're complaining about trivialities. Everybody already knows about the fire because they've complaining about at every meeting for three months. Or the thing they are complaining about can't be changed. They're actually getting sidelined because they interrupt company allhands to ask the CEO irrelevant questions, wasting the time of 50 people and no one likes them anymore. I view dealing with chronic complainers as mentoring them to stop self-sabotaging themselves. |
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| ▲ | palata 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Sometimes I find that there is a question of preferences. Take 3 architects, they will come up with 3 different architectures. There is "style" in architecture. Some people will complain because the chosen architecture is not their preferred one, and they see everything that is not their preferred choice as "bad". I feel like establishing a hierarchy may make sense here: "This person is the architect, you are not. You may disagree and make technical arguments to them, but at the end of the day, they take the decision and you have to follow it". Of course it means that the architect has to actually listen to the technical arguments, and not go "I'm the architect, I'm better, just shut up". | | |
| ▲ | jacquesm 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I think it is really hard for certain people to admit that there are multiple ways that lead to the goal and that those other ways (not their preferred ones) are probably just as valid. And when the choice is made not to take their preferred way they turn into net negatives because now they are going to prove their way was better by sabotaging the alternative. This can wreck projects quite handily. The best managers build consensus and try to avoid people digging in behind 'their' solutions. This is hard work. | | |
| ▲ | Ensorceled 3 days ago | parent [-] | | This is one of the hardest things to teach new developers doing code reviews: your way isn't better, it's just different. And, sometimes it may be somewhat better but not worth changing for working code. This is especially true when talking about clarity vs succinct. | | |
| ▲ | jacquesm 3 days ago | parent [-] | | > This is especially true when talking about clarity vs succinct. Don't get me started on that one. And its close cousin, correctness vs speed. |
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| ▲ | Ensorceled 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I have a lot of patience for disagreements and alternative solutions. But at some point you need to "support the group" and not re-litigate at every opportunity. I see that as the difference and when it becomes complaining and toxic. |
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| ▲ | scott_w 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| From the article: > Complaining is not a character flaw; it is a response shaped by context, past experiences, and unmet needs such as recognition, belonging, or agency. When leaders interpret complaint only as negativity, they risk silencing the very signals that reveal what people care about. By seeing complaints as expressions of care in disguise, leaders can move beyond irritation and instead use inquiry to uncover underlying concerns, redirect energy, and invite ownership. In this way, what begins as frustration can become the raw material for contribution and engagement. |
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| ▲ | yetihehe 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > Complaining is not a character flaw Sometimes it is. I was complaining a lot, but then someone had enough and explained to me that it isn't productive (complaining about every minor annoyance) and makes people not like me. Now I'm not complaining so much, only when I know how to change something or that it really needs to be changed. My life got a little better. | | |
| ▲ | scott_w 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I'm not making a claim one way or another. I merely quoted the article in response to this claim by OP: > Calling someone a complainer is corporate-speak for “they noticed the fire before leadership did.” Just so I'm being crystal clear: I was pointing out that the article already addressed OP's statement. I should also point out that your own comment doesn't refute the article. You just followed the article's advice for yourself rather than for a subordinate (which is fine). |
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| ▲ | znpy 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Not a manager, I'm an IC. I strongly disagree. Noticing the fires is often trivial. Complaining... It depends. Complaining constructively is fine. Complaining for the sake of complaining gets annoying very fast. Also... People that spend a lot of time complaining are usually that aren't capable of making things happen anyway. They can only see the limitations. I avoid those people I noticed they just bring down my mental focus. |
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| ▲ | strangescript 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There are plenty of people who complain because its baked into their personality. Those people can also work at a bad place and have a target rich environment so to speak. The only sure fire way to avoid this label being applied unjustly is always bring solutions, not complaints. Document your solutions and let it rest if leadership doesn't agree. |
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| ▲ | flkiwi 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| This is typically what I see. There ARE chronically negative people, but more often “complainers” are the smart people who don’t rely on passive voice and jargon to get ahead or, having been ignored for years by the passive voice jargon cheerleaders while their concerns came true, are bitter and punching the clock. |