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anonu 6 days ago

> THESE PILLS WERE the pride and joy of Dr. Benjamin Rush, one of the Founding Fathers and a signer of the Declaration of Independence.

Later, a descendent of Dr Rush would go down in infamy for a foolhardy escapade to the Titanic in a carbon-fiber submersible called Titan.

> Dr. Rush’s style of “heroic medicine” had caused his star to fall quite a bit by this time — especially after the Philadelphia yellow fever epidemic of 1793, when his patients died at a noticeably higher rate than untreated sufferers.

Seems familiar...

cco 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

The head of our health and services department is not so far off Dr Rush's opinions on how human health works.

250 years after Dr Rush and somehow the head doctor in our country believes in the miasma theory of disease, only marginally more modern (still ancient Greek).

n4r9 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Oh my Lord, you're right: https://arstechnica.com/health/2025/04/rfk-jr-s-anti-vaccine...

tim333 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Interesting from that article that he as diagnosed with mercury poisoning, famous for making people a bit mad, hence the mad hatter in Alice in Wonderland as hatters in the day used mercury.

pstuart 5 days ago | parent [-]

And a parasitic brain worm to boot.

antonvs 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The section is titled "Miasma vs. Germ Theory," in the chapter "The White Man's Burden" [in his book attacking Fauci, titled "The Real Anthony Fauci"]

RFK Jr. seems to be trying to answer the question, how misguided can one man be?

goodluckchuck 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

The article defeats itself by acknowledging that he uses the term in a different sense… which doesn’t deny the existence or effect of germs, but focuses on the fact that for example many of the worst effects from COVID-19 were in obese people. His point is we have 364 days a year to address obesity, but - in practice - the medical community waits until the last day and tries to develop a vaccine that will allow us to stay overweight and just kill the germ. He’s saying we miss the forest for the trees when we forget to focus on the underlying health of our bodies. Of course they wanted to write a hit piece… and what he’s saying isn’t actually controversial.

tim333 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah. Here's the section for those interested https://justpaste.it/k4rqx

He uses the terms in a muddled way rather than disputing germs existence. Eg:

>Miasma exponents posit that disease occurs where a weakened immune system provides germs an enfeebled target to exploit.

010101010101 5 days ago | parent [-]

> When a starving African child succumbs to measles, the miasmist attributes the death to malnutrition; germ theory proponents (a.k.a. virologists) blame the virus. This is in the second paragraph and is exactly what tfa represented. It also argues directly against the idea that “a weakened immune system provides germs an enfeebled target to exploit” using measles deaths in otherwise healthy yet unvaccinated American children as an example. This is only a “hit piece” in that it’s blatantly critical of RFK Jr. and his ideas - those ideas are complete garbage and deserving of ridicule, and the leader of HHS espousing them should make him a target of far more criticism than this.

smelendez 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Doctors have tried lots of ways to treat obesity—drugs, diet and exercise recommendations, various surgeries, hypnosis, peer support groups. It’s not a problem they ignore and obviously one you can be richly rewarded for treating, as we see with the GLP-1 drugs.

It’s just difficult for many people to lose weight and keep it off.

BolexNOLA 4 days ago | parent [-]

Yeah I feel like there’s this weird implication in the prior comment that obesity is something for a doctor to cure that they simply choose not to because of idk money or other incentives or whatever

BolexNOLA 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> His point is we have 364 days a year to address obesity, but - in practice - the medical community waits until the last day and tries to develop a vaccine that will allow us to stay overweight and just kill the germ.

Maybe I need reevaluate my interpretation here, but this reads heavily like you’re not only blaming doctors for failing to “cure” people’s obesity, but also for waiting too long to address it, instead (incorrectly) opting to treat or prevent the virus that the patient is seeing them for. Am I reading that right? Basically “doctors refuse to treat the real problem - obesity - and instead wait until the last second and (wrongly) treat the virus”?

jeltz 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> His point is we have 364 days a year to address obesity, but - in practice - the medical community waits until the last day and tries to develop a vaccine that will allow us to stay overweight and just kill the germ.

That is a quite controversial claim and one I hope he did not make. Do you seriously mean we should not have developed a vaccine because fat people dying would have been preferrable? If we had not developed a vaccine I do not think people would have changed their habits, more overweight people would just have died.

The medical community has taken overweight very seriously and a lot of money has been put into developing weight loss drugs but it is not like CDC can magically make people eat better.

AlecSchueler 5 days ago | parent [-]

> Do you seriously mean we should not have developed a vaccine because fat people dying would have been preferrable?

I really have no idea how you could read that from those words? He's saying he wishes we had been more proactive in tackling obesity prior to the pandemic.

As you say, yes, they already do a lot, so it's still quite misguided, but still very far from how you were framing it.

n4r9 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

In which case he's misusing the term "miasma", oversimplifying modern medicine by labelling the entire practice as "germ theory", and presenting a false balance on the issue. And it's kinda dangerous to dog-whistle like that; vaccines have saved far more lives than simple nutrition and healthy living would be able to replace. We've seen the outcome of RFK spewing misinformation about the measles vaccine in Samoa. People suffer and die.

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robocat 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

We disbelieved in miasma during Covid: yet Covid turned out to be transmitted by "bad air" . . . regardless of how strongly it was argued against at the beginning of 2020.

Even wrong theories can have a kernel of truth. https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Miasma_theory

vintermann 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

If we go by theories by their earliest incarnations, "germ theory" rejected that diseases could be caused by deficiency in micronutrients. "Terrain theory" arguably was the closest to the truth on those.

Also, by the standards of so-called "evidence based medicine" where we care less about the proposed mechanism a treatment works by, and more about whether it actually works, then miasma theory (or maybe it's more accurate to call it miasma practice, then?) doesn't look so bad. Florence Nightingale didn't bury horses because she believed in germ theory, she did it because they stank - and because she had developed statistical evidence that such hygiene interventions worked, whatever the mechanism. It took a long time for germ theory to get sophisticated enough that we can say it started saving more lives than sanitation (which was developed based on miasma theory).

The first incarnations of an ultimately correct theory often work worse in practice at the start.

Not that it excuses Kennedy.

n4r9 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So what? Geocentricity can predict some observations but it's bonkers to believe in it today.

Cthulhu_ 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I guess if we're doing mental gymnastics, an airborne virus is indeed "bad air", and opening a window helps get the bad air out and wearing a mask keeps the bad air in.

If "bad air" convinced people to take measures then I'll take it as a win.

jibal 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

There were no arguments against a virus causing respiratory disease being carried airborne. There was uncertainty as to whether the disease could be contracted from surfaces.

And viruses being airborne (carried on droplets) simply isn't what miasma theory is. Actual miasma theory is wrong and has no kernel of truth ... a fine example of how correlation is not causation.

And let's get back to the point:

> somehow the head doctor in our country believes in the miasma theory of disease

The man is an extraordinarily dangerous crank who is putting the health of Americans at grave risk ... he has already killed numerous children and it will soon get much worse. Any attempt to defend him in any way is vile.

dboreham 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

> no arguments against a virus causing respiratory disease being carried airborne

In the US this was not true. Authorities strongly asserted that the virus did not have "airborne" transmission properties, despite numerous people contracting it while locked in their cruise ship cabins.

hollerith 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

This is my recollection, too. Doctors widely believed to be experts in covid would insist in interviews with the mainstream press that people needed to stay 6 feet from each other, but say nothing about the need to wear a good mask while sharing indoor air spaces with other people. (I cannot determine their motivation, but my guess is that they were probably trying to prevent a run on the N95 mask supply.)

I was successful in convincing an elderly friend that this advice was wrong and she needed to wear an N95 when inside grocery stores even if she sanitized her hands after every time she touched anything and even if she stayed 6 feet away from people. It took about 12 months for the mainstream narrative to start to say that vulnerable populations should wear N95 masks when indoors with the public.

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pstuart 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

The mask debacle has interesting angles on why it happened: https://slate.com/technology/2021/07/noble-lies-covid-fauci-...

My take is that they fucked up but in an understandable way (rather than some evil conspiracy).

I remain convinced that Trump was against masks because it would mess up his bronzer and ruin the illusion it's intended to convey.

jibal 5 days ago | parent [-]

The 6 foot distancing suggestions came in March. Recommendations for face coverings for the general public were recommended by the CDC on April 2, a few days after Trump suggested scarves. Claims that there was a 12 month gap between the distancing guidelines and recommendations for N95 or other masks is ludicrous.

And if we're going to talk about Fauci's noble lies in the interests of public health, we ought to say something about the loon with a dead worm in his brain who sincerely believes, promotes, and enforces all sorts of nonsense that is going to result in a lot of illness and death.

arcticfox 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I was so confused by the "no airborne transmission" theory because it seems naive - like you'd need a lot of evidence to convince me that it wasn't the case given the fundamentals of viruses.

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themaninthedark 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

>Why the WHO took two years to say COVID is airborne

>Early in the pandemic, the World Health Organization stated that SARS-CoV-2 was not transmitted through the air.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00925-7

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DonHopkins 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

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flanked-evergl 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

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ffsm8 5 days ago | parent [-]

The vaccine wasn't even close to 99% effective nor is any medication 100% safe, and neither was this vaccine. It had severe side effects in a lot of people.

This kind of messaging is a large part of the problem, because it's trivially verify-able to be a lie, muddying the waters of wherever it should be used.

jibal 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

> It had severe side effects in a lot of people.

False. The only way to reach that conclusion is by misusing/misinterpreting the VAERS data.

jibal 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

P.S.

> This kind of messaging is a large part of the problem, because it's trivially verify-able to be a lie, muddying the waters of wherever it should be used.

How ironic.

I'm not going to respond directly to and get into an argument with someone who accuses me of bad faith, but I offer this from ChatGPT (these statements are readily verifiable):

Most side effects were mild and short-lived (injection site pain, fatigue, headache, fever).

Severe side effects were very rare — things like myocarditis (mostly in young men, usually mild and treatable), Guillain–Barré syndrome, or blood clotting events with adenovirus vaccines.

Surveillance data (VAERS, V-Safe, EMA, etc.) show that the incidence of these severe effects was in the range of a few per hundred thousand to a few per million doses — not “a lot of people.”

By contrast, COVID-19 infection itself caused severe illness in many more people, and even increased the baseline risks of myocarditis and clotting much more than vaccines did.

So the corrected takeaway:

Saying vaccines caused severe side effects “in a lot of people” is inaccurate.

The reality is that severe vaccine side effects were rare but carefully monitored, and the risk/benefit balance strongly favored vaccination.

ffsm8 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm not sure how to take your statement seriously.

Do you not consider being bed ridden for months while suffering from symptoms similar to long covid severe?

Or did you interpret my "a lot of people" as "a high percentage of people getting the vaccine"? Because I agree it wasn't a high percentage, but still _a lot of people_ nonetheless.

If neither applies, I struggle to understand how you can make that claim in good faith.

wizzwizz4 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wouldn't say "a lot of people". See https://nap.nationalacademies.org/resource/27746/interactive...: only a few conditions, such as Myocarditis, are linked to the mRNA vaccines. I'd be way better off taking even the dodgiest vaccine (Oxford–AstraZeneca, which is no longer in production) than no vaccine, if exposed to actual COVID-19: the reduction in COVID-19 severity would be well worth it in terms of health outcomes (let alone the herd immunity consequences).

Sardtok 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

There's this thing called sarcasm