| ▲ | SV_BubbleTime 3 days ago |
| I feel it. If I had control to wipe all machines as start over today, the SMB I work for would have to strongly consider all machines on Linux. What is it our users do? Word, Excel, PowerPoint, browsers. So right off the bat, I’ve either shuttered the idea, or need to commit my users to be software social pariahs whenever we need to work with another company. I suggest the battle isn’t the OS. But, rather Microsoft Office. |
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| ▲ | zdw 3 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| Trapping user's data in their roach motel formats (the data goes in, but can never leave with full fidelity) is the longest running objection I have to using any Microsoft software. This is also why they fought so hard against the XML standardization of docs formats, and still to this day docs created by their own apps don't even validate against the schemas they created. |
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| ▲ | BrenBarn 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The weird thing is that to a significant extent that battle is really just about the words "Microsoft Office". LibreOffice has some awkwardness and annoyances, but it's quite adequate for probably 90% of mundane office tasks people need to do (and MS Office has its own pain points). A major barrier is just a specific insistence that Word be used, without any reference to functional requirements of the actual document. |
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| ▲ | jamiek88 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | People always say this but the 90% doesn’t count. The 90% is easy. It’s the other bit that people hit and compatibility issues mean any non standard approach whether it’s fair or not will always, always get the blame. Plus I dispute that libreoffice has even close to 90% of what excel can do. | | |
| ▲ | roscas 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Let's not compare the advanced options of Excel or how Excel bugs annoy me. There are loads of them. Let's just compare what people do when they need a tool like Excel. That's when the 90 or maybe more % of people will do. That is what I do. Everything I do in Excel can be done on LibreCalc. So it is true that LibreCalc can replace 90% or more, because not everybody needs those advanced topics. Same for the other LibreOffice apps, Writer is good for almost everybody. As LibreDraw and others. |
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| ▲ | bee_rider 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I’ve never met a document an office document that wouldn’t have been better as a wiki (if it is intended to be impermanent), or as a something like a LaTeX document (if it is not). | | | |
| ▲ | upboundspiral 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I've found that OnlyOffice has much better Microsoft Office compatibility. I just install it via flatpak, remove the network permission, and go about my business perfectly. While LibreOffice -> LibreOffice works perfectly fine, whenever it opens a .docx file it always wants to save it as a .odf which is a nonstarter. Not because I don't want to support open document formats but because everyone expects a .docx back if they send you one. It also struggles consistently for any type of advanced formatting (as a .docx). | | |
| ▲ | SV_BubbleTime 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Remove the network permission by what mechanism? I only know firejail or this (iirc) |
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| ▲ | n3storm 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Please consider checking LibreOffice periodically, every 4 - 6 months Ms compatibility increases at steady pace, it may have solved that issue that was keeping you back from using it (25 years using linux and staroffice) |
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| ▲ | trinsic2 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Libre office has some annoyances though. I cannot for the life of me disable the document recovery model that always pops up on every launch regardless if a document needs to be recovered or not. Also I cant seem to get printing to default to 8 1/2x11 formatting. | | | |
| ▲ | SoftTalker 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Functionality is pretty good but the UI is from the 1990s. | | |
| ▲ | bigstrat2003 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | That's a good thing. UI design peaked around that era and has been going downhill ever since. | | |
| ▲ | zaruvi 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | These days you can choose between different UIs, some of which will have the "ribbon" style. I do agree though that it feels a bit dated if you're used to MS' office, but you get used to it quite quickly. | |
| ▲ | uncircle 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | GP probably wanted to say that LibreOffice’s UI is 90s era Linux quality, rather than the beauty of Office 97 and such. Mismatched, not native, terrible stock icons, clunky and frankly ugly. |
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| ▲ | n3storm 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You haven't checked in a lon time ;) |
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| ▲ | bawolff 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Maybe it depends on what you work on, but i havent seen powerpoint or .docx file in like a decade. Everyone i know uses google docs. I'm sure there are users with specialized needs who need something more complex, but i dont think microsoft office is quite the moat it used to be. |
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| ▲ | SV_BubbleTime 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Trade one devil for another? I’ve never looked to see the compatibility of Office to Gsuite. So unless it is 110% perfect it is a non-starter. The second we have a supplier send an excel with some goofball formula in it and we don’t see some data or can’t open it - it’s over. This isn’t even getting to the next devil… Adobe. | |
| ▲ | ejiblabahaba 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | My employer blocks access to Google Docs as part of our confidential information protection policy. They're certainly not the only ones. I'd hesitate to call on-premises file management "specialized needs" - rather, it's (still) the default, particularly if you take a peek outside of the software bubble. | | |
| ▲ | bawolff 3 days ago | parent [-] | | I suspect that that is more an anti-shadow IT measure than an anti-google docs measure. |
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| ▲ | SoftTalker 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Google Office docs are pretty acceptable these days unless you need really specific Excel functionality. |
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| ▲ | roscas 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Don't want anyone to use that but that is good to prove that almost everybody can use a spreedsheat that is not Excel. Including LibreCalc. And many others. The same situation is for email. Who needs Outlook? Nobody! You can do almost everything with Thunderbird. So does Outlook have some "special" things? Maybe, never used it! I even had my email on clawsmail and it was amazing. |
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| ▲ | rahkiin 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Would the Office 365 in browser work for you? |
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| ▲ | roscas 3 days ago | parent [-] | | I've used it for very simple things but I don't thing it even has 1% of the installed Excel program does. It is too simple and buggy. Few days ago wife opened an excel file on the browser and something was right away wrong, she noticed, can't remember what it was. Had to download and execute local. | | |
| ▲ | p_ing 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I wouldn’t call it simple. It does have Python scripting. Obviously not the functionality she needed, but that’s fairly advanced in the Excel world. And that’s the issue with every alternative, it lacks 1:1 features/bugs so what’s usable for one isn’t for another. |
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| ▲ | globalnode 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| And games. |
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| ▲ | adamors 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Gaming has actually seen the biggest improvement on Linux in the last couple of years, check out https://www.protondb.com/ for just how many titles are playable. | |
| ▲ | A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I figured that one is mostly solved now between Steam, Bazzite or even just VM Windows ( if you really have to go that route ). | | |
| ▲ | mvdtnz 3 days ago | parent [-] | | It definitely isn't solved. | | |
| ▲ | A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Hmm. I might be speaking from a perspective of a more.. restrained gamer ( my last bigger indulgence was BG3 and, while there were issues after updates, drivers tended to solve those eventually ). Any particular titles you have a problem with? If you are thinking of permanently online games that effectively put malware on your system, I am ok with that not being solved ( but even for those there are ways to go around those restrictions -- which should not be surprise given the nature of cat and mouse game ). | | |
| ▲ | mvdtnz 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Battlefield 2024 (and the upcoming 6) and all recent Call of Duty games are the obvious ones. And if you're interested in sim racing then device compatibility is a major problem even before you get to launch the game. > I am ok with that not being solved Great, good for you? You can't claim a problem is solved and then say "well I don't care" when shown it's not solved. | | |
| ▲ | A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2 days ago | parent [-] | | << You can't claim a problem is solved and then say "well I don't care" when shown it's not solved. It is a fair point in that sense so you get full points for argument counter. That said, I personally think gamers, as a demographic, has some responsibility to say.. 'yeah, no. stop being dicks'. It is not that I don't care exactly. It is that I care too much to allow this crap on my computer. | | |
| ▲ | mvdtnz 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > I personally think gamers, as a demographic, has some responsibility to say.. 'yeah, no. stop being dicks' Well you don't play online games. Personally I care a great deal more about cheaters than I do about whether a company (who I already trust to install stuff on my computer) installs stuff on my computer. Cheaters absolutely ruin games. | | |
| ▲ | A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Hmm. What solution would you propose if you were in a position to do that ( change linux in a way that allows you to play online games like new Battlefield )? | | |
| ▲ | mvdtnz 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I don't know enough to understand what prevents it I guess. I thought it was a matter of game or anti cheat developers not writing software that will cooperate properly. It's a chicken and egg problem, has been for decades. Believe me I would love to drop Windows. | | |
| ▲ | A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2 days ago | parent [-] | | That's fair. I don't want to sound too cynical with a reflexive 'money' response.
As you note, some of it is indeed a question of software not playing nice together. I have zero solutions for this. Tbh, it sounds like you may be forced to use a Windows VM ( if you want try 'dropping' windows that way ). Last time I was looking at it, VMs were still fair game, but were starting to be identified as a way to bypass some of the restrictions ( mostly because they were only doing a couple of checks for whether OS is in a VM ). That said, few friends were recently sharing pics suggesting those checks were getting more invasive. << Believe me I would love to drop Windows. Just in case it helps, I went through a major system issue at some point with Windows 7 and once it was clear that CPU/GPU passthrough works surprisingly well ( before nvidia started messing with it after 3060 ), I got a way to ease myself in with better fallback position should my linux install fail somehow. This approach ( OS engaged for a specific purpose ) worked better than dual boot, which in practice was never used. There is some learning curve, but nothing excessive or something that is not well covered online. |
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