“I almost always book the minimum flight, basic economy, whether or not I am paying. There is so little to be gained from moving up compared to the price.”

Perhaps I’m too precious but economy class is awful compared to business class. Lie-flat seats are a significant improvement over economy. If you are spending your own money, sure, stick to economy so you can spend your money on other things that are more important to you… but someone else’s money? What conceivable reason is there to choose economy if someone else is paying.

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WalterBright 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> What conceivable reason is there to choose economy if someone else is paying.

Not taking advantage of someone else's generosity.

If that's not good enough, don't think the someone else doesn't notice being taken advantage of. They won't say anything, but in the future you may be "overlooked" for other opportunities.

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borroka 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

It's like asking for less than you need or could get when negotiating pay for a job or position.

One would think that the employer would recognize or remember this kind of “sacrifice.” Or that, somehow, asking for less money will lead to a more sympathetic judgment of what was accomplished. But my experience and that of many others I have observed tells me that this rarely happens.

Those who pay, pay what they can and always ask for the best that can be done. My advice is to accept business class when it is offered and to negotiate with vigor in every aspect of your professional life.

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WalterBright 2 days ago | parent [-]

> It's like asking for less than you need or could get when negotiating pay for a job or position.

I disagree. It's chiseling.

If you don't like the deal you're getting, negotiate with your employer. If an agreement cannot be reached, it's time to part ways.

Disagreement does not make chiseling justifiable.

If you tell your friends and coworkers about the chiseling, they'll smile and nod, but they won't trust you any more.

	▲	borroka a day ago \| parent [-]
		I don't understand the "chiseling" aspect referred to. The issue is quite simple. There is a certain budget that the company, person, or institution is willing to spend on a specific goal. If the money isn't spent on you, it's spent on someone else or something else. Since we're not talking about volunteering, my main goal is to maximize my return while maintaining my integrity and professionalism (e.g., without stealing, lying excessively [we all lie a bit, come on], or operating outside the ethical norms as dictated by common sense). If the C-suite is flying first or business class, I feel encouraged to fly business or first class. If nobody is flying first or business, flying not in economy would not be ethical. But if they insist...

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WalterBright 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The smart way to handle this if you really want to fly business class is to pay the upgrade cost difference yourself. Mark it on your expense report when you turn in the receipts.

Your sponsor then may say "no worries, we'll take care of the upgrade cost!" then you're golden. In any case they'll respect your integrity.

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ghaff 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Companies usually have certain travel policies including who can fly business and under what circumstances. If you're within policy I don't see the issue.

	▲	WalterBright 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		Yes, if it is written policy, then there is no issue. Also if you get agreement in advance then it is not an issue.

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scarface_74 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I’ve worked for three cloud consulting shops, they would never allow this. One of those consulting shops is AWS’s internal shop.

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thebiss 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I have worked for similar consulting companies, though not AWS. We had to always book an initial ticket that was policy compliant (economy, or higher only if it was similarly priced), and then optionally upgrade the seat. That causes the upgrade to come through as a separate charge.

Later, when submitting expenses, the upgrade had to be marked as a personal expense, to be netted against per diem or paid back directly.

Early in my career managers did a very poor job of explaining that this was allowed.

	▲	scarface_74 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		Of course, I overlooked the scenario that the parent mentioned about paying for themselves. I frequently took my wife with me on work trips and we would stay a few extra days. I would buy her ticket separately, have separate receipts when we ate out so I could have mine reimbursed and put the extra days as personal in Concur. Our favorite chain hotel is Embassy Suites where you got a good free breakfast and an afternoon happy hour with free alcoholic drinks so she would benefit without it costing the company. Funny enough, since expenses reimbursement approval was done by a department outside of the US, they consistently disallowed my hotel expenses because it showed two people in the room even though it didn’t cost more and was within policy. I just had to tell the hotel only to put 1 guest. I know the hotel check in thought I was having an affair with someone even though my wife was standing right there with me.

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WalterBright 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Never allow the employee to pay for the upgrade himself? Wow.

Companies also tend to overlook excessive travel expenses if the employee is bringing home the bacon. But don't put hooker expenses on it! (Yes, I've seen this happen.)

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scarface_74 2 days ago | parent [-]

The three companies have travel policies that apply to everyone. It also depends on who is paying I guess. I am a post sales consultant where for the most part, my company gets reimbursed by the client and in the contract, they have the guard rails as far as allowed travel expenses.

Then on the other hand, you don’t have to choose the cheapest airline possible, so you can choose the one where you have status and get automatic upgrades (Delta Platinum Medallion in my case) and a higher chance for upgrades.

Of course you can pay for the upgrade yourself. But why would I spend my own money to do so. They are so strict though that every time my receipt after flying showed I was in an upgraded seat, I had to also send in the email as proof that my upgrade was free because of status.

	▲	WalterBright 2 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		> They are so strict though Most likely because they were tired of being defrauded. As usual, it only takes a few bad apples to sour things for everyone.
	▲	ghaff 2 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		When available trans-Pacific, I did sometimes use miles to upgrade to business (and generally paid the co-pay myself). Pretty much always flew my usual carrier (United) when that was an option.

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2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[deleted]

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whobre 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Business is much better for long flights. For flights under 5 hours it almost does not make any difference.

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ghaff 2 days ago | parent [-]

BOS to SFO, domestic business is more comfortable but not to the degree I'd likely pay out of my pocket for.

	▲	piperswe a day ago \| parent [-]
		United premium transcontinental business class between SFO and BOS is quite nice and reasonably affordable. It's no Polaris, but they are comfortable lie-flat seats. At least, that was the case when I flew that route in late 2019 - not sure if they still have the same service.

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ajmurmann 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A big advantage in business to me is that it's usually only two seats next to each other. That also no risk of middle seat. I've yet to experience lie-flat seats in business class. Even first class on many planes doesn't have that.

	▲	scarface_74 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		What risk is there of a middle seat if you are choosing your seat? While I do enjoy my automatic C+ upgrades at time of ticketing because of status on Delta, I’m short and average size so main cabin doesn’t really bother me especially if I can get an exit row seat. It wasn’t bad flying nine hours to London two months ago.

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2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[deleted]

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nutjob2 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If someone else is paying it's very likely they have restrictions on business class seats on long haul, given the typical large fare difference.

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mvdtnz 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> What conceivable reason is there to choose economy if someone else is paying.

Thanks for the unpleasant reminder that people like you exist.