| ▲ | cycomanic 3 days ago |
| > But the quality of MacBooks is just another level. I had 3 or 4 so far since 2010, and each of them held at least 5 years. Crazy good. When I read things like this it really sounds like there is some reality distortion field in the mac world. How is that anywhere special? I'm running a thinkpad X1 as my 2 main laptops (it was my only work machine until 2 years ago) and I never felt the need to replace it. It gave me 8-10h battery life and the only issue I ever had was that 1.5 years ago the battery was reaching end of life and capacity started dropping very fast. That was just a 70$ repair I could easily do myself. My youngest daughter just inherited my mother's x220 (?) (she has been running Linux) that I got for my mother in 2011 or 2012. That never received any work and still works fine except that I didn't change the battery so you have to run it of ac power. My older daughter and my mother both just got some used thinkpads that are >3years old and don't have any issues either. So from my experience a 5 year lifetime for a macbook is really nothing special and definitely not "crazy good". |
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| ▲ | pjerem 3 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| I’d say it’s barely 3 things : - The trackpad (but other manufacturers now have tolerable alternatives and anyway you can work without it) - The screen : at an equivalent price point (and even more), nothing comes close to Apple screens. The cheapest MacBook have a better screen than most high end PCs. - The audio : Apple truly did some sorcery to get such an awesome sound from machines that are flat as sheet. It’s so good that you can watch a movie on your MacBook without earbuds and don’t be bothered. Everything else like build quality is overall better than most other alternatives but a few other manufacturers are also good at it. I say this as someone who uses a MacBook for work despite loving Linux and who hates what macOS have become. The hardware is really that good. |
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| ▲ | baq 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Also add a very important feature of ‘lid is closed - the computer is asleep and it wakes up when lid opens’. Both windows and Linux are simply broken in that regard. What I need is Apple MacBook hardware with a 100% supported Linux OS. This combination simply doesn’t exist and there’s no amount of money to make it happen (yes I know about asahi.) | | |
| ▲ | rjzzleep 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | It's not really Linux' fault. Most It's Microsoft that forced this, and most vendors don't know how to deal with this and work proper firmware. I think Framework and Valve fixed theirs. I have a GPD and just found out that the reason I kept getting it wake from sleep was some MS related option triggering an ACPI IRQ 9 sleep wake. On another note, I actually think that the most important things that work better on the Apple devices is the mic and camera, the rest is somewhat unimportant on the go if you work at a desk. | | |
| ▲ | baq 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | As a user I don't care whose fault is it. I want my laptop to go to sleep when I close the lid; I want it to stay asleep while the lid is closed; I want it to wake when I open the lid. Only macs seem to be able to do that consistently; I'd be glad to be proven wrong, but over the past decade I haven't found a counterexample yet. | | |
| ▲ | commandersaki 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I don't think that's even true with my m3 mbp16. I haven't tweaked with the power settings but I'm pretty sure it is in a connected sleep state when I close the lid; at least when I'm hotspotting my phone will register it as a connected device. | | |
| ▲ | alanpearce 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | This can be enabled or disabled under the System Settings > Battery > Options > Wake for network access (Always / Power adapter / Never). Or possibly the phone registers it as connected for a while after it sends its last packet? | | |
| ▲ | mbreese 2 days ago | parent [-] | | IIRC, Macs also do tricky networking things to make it faster to come back online from sleep. I'd be curious if the computer is actually sending packets vs. just keeping the address configured and waiting. (That may just be on iOS though...) |
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| ▲ | leeman2016 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes, I can confirm. But i thought that was by design |
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| ▲ | megatron2009 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Dell latitude laptops sleep very reliably. I have had 4 in a row now since 2007. Also as a side note, as a user, I agree you don't care whose fault is it, but then this is hacker news where we are interested in whose fault it is. | |
| ▲ | mrj 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I’ve never had a problem with a system76 or tuxedo computers laptop using suspend correctly. If you want it to just work, you may need to buy from a manufacturer who you pay to make it just work. Otherwise you’re comparing a dyi setup to Apple. | |
| ▲ | 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | KerrAvon 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I think Intel is partially at fault. On Apple’s Intel hardware, suspend and resume worked, but it was very slow due to the weirdly baroque power management. The M1 MacBooks were a revelation; the screen woke instantly when you opened it. | | |
| ▲ | rjzzleep 2 days ago | parent [-] | | AMD removed s3 suspend support on Phoenix due to Microsoft pressure. So you can enter S3, but the GPU can't resume from it. |
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| ▲ | brabel 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | My god I had to put my Linux (Dell xps13 with Ubuntu from factory, though I installed KDE later) laptop in the drawer as I just couldn’t make it sleep with the lid down. It would simply wake up in the middle of the night and drive me crazy with the fan!! I loved that laptop but it gave me trouble after trouble (stuff like sound breaking after upgrades, Bluetooth failures and many more). My Mac just worked so I use only that now. Though it is old now, around 6 years, and I have to buy a new one soon. Luckily they are having good discount on the M4 right now as I suppose M5 is coming next month?! | | |
| ▲ | dingnuts 2 days ago | parent [-] | | funny, I had this problem with my last Mac ten years ago. ymmv ig | | |
| ▲ | fredoliveira 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Intel macs sometimes went crazy with fans. The leap from those to Apple Silicon hardware was (to me at least) as impactful as HDD to SSD. | |
| ▲ | Der_Einzige 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Get your head out of the sand. It’s an intel X86 (hence why you had it) problem. Macs current ARM chips are excellent at sleeping and waking correctly |
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| ▲ | makeitdouble 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > the computer is asleep Technically the macbook never sleeps, it enters a low power mode, except when it's blocked by specific processes or does additional background tasks (updates etc.) How well it's done on windows or linux depends on the maker of the machine (you, if you built it). The Surface lineup will also enter low power mode as flawlessly, if that's what you care about the most. | | |
| ▲ | baq 2 days ago | parent [-] | | As a user I care about the damn thing not using up the whole battery overnight, not playing sounds and not running any fans; and I also care that when I open the lid, it’ll happily start doing those things because I now need it to do them. Whether technically it’s called a sleep state or not is irrelevant. | | |
| ▲ | makeitdouble 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I made the distinction because on occasions you'll close the lid, put the macbook in your backpack and an hour later it's a whole furnace in there. It kinda matters. | | |
| ▲ | baq 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > I made the distinction because on occasions you'll close the lid, put the macbook in your backpack and an hour later it's a whole furnace in there. As a laptop user this just makes me depressed :( |
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| ▲ | andoando 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You can dual boot Asahi Linux https://asahilinux.org/fedora/ | | |
| ▲ | piskov 3 days ago | parent [-] | | It seams asaho is basically dead at this point. Prominent maintainers quit and in a couple of months there will be two years since latest m3+ macs are unsupported | | |
| ▲ | GeekyBear 3 days ago | parent [-] | | > It seams asaho is basically dead at this point. This month's Asahi blog post begs to differ. > This completes our transition to a fully upstream graphics stack, and as such we are retiring our Mesa fork completely... we have managed to upstream a little over 20% of our entire patch set in just under five months. https://asahilinux.org/2025/08/progress-report-6-16/ |
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| ▲ | coliveira 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There's another issue: Windows keeps turning off the screen after a few minutes of idle time, no matter what I try. They have options to control this, but the hardware seems to override these options for some reason. | | | |
| ▲ | megatron2009 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Blame microsoft for it with their crazy si0x experiment breaking everyone. |
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| ▲ | me551ah 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Also durability. I’m shocked that something that looks so good can withstand by downright abuse. I hold my MacBook Pro with one hand and fling it around and I’ve lost track of the number of times it has fallen down. But except for some chips at random places, it works perfectly fine | | |
| ▲ | pixxel 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | [dead] | |
| ▲ | goyagoji 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm not really sure that's remarkable, maybe compared to the netbook level machines. Now that HDs are gone the only cause of failure I see from my coworkers is extended vacations and remote work in tropical climates. | | |
| ▲ | Brybry 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I threw a 15" Dell laptop from the early aughts into a wall (for reasons I am not proud of), hard enough to put a hole in the sheet rock, and the laptop still worked fine. Cracked the plastic case a bit but that was it. The most amazing part to me was not the HDD surviving but the LCD backlight. This back was when they still used those super fragile thin CCFLs. | |
| ▲ | goyagoji 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Ah, I guess the point of the thread was to share only data points consistent with the distortion. |
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| ▲ | rangestransform 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The audio is magic because Apple overdrives their speakers by analyzing the signal to stay under the sustained power limit of the speaker, instead of clipping everything at the sustained power limit. https://forum.devtalk.com/t/a-reason-why-mac-speakers-sound-... | | |
| ▲ | elcritch 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I'd argue they're technically not over-driving them if the speakers survive and work well. Rather it's that other vendors are under driving their speakers by using a simplistic algorithm. Apple is actually driving their speakers closer to their actual physical limits which are driven by average power not peak momentary power. | | |
| ▲ | pjerem 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Actually they do over drive them. I think it is explained in the asahi sound driver GitHub which reverse engineered the Apple driver. IIRC, there is an algorithm which overdrives the speakers in physically dangerous zones only on some frequencies and only in short bursts of time with a throttle until the next over drive if necessary. For the user it’s transparent because we are talking about timings in milliseconds so except if you play a static frequency you can’t notice anything. Asahi explained that they had to reverse engineer this because they didn’t understand why the sound was so bad on Linux. |
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| ▲ | woleium 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | so someone could write an app for windows to do the same thing? | | |
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| ▲ | wolvesechoes 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Guy is talking about laptop lasting for 5 years as not something that is special, and you respond with awesome sound quality. Apple threads are always so funny. | | |
| ▲ | newsclues 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Have you used the cheap Dells and HP laptops that most people buy (not high end IBM machines)? They tend to be plastic junk. Yes thinkpads are good, but most laptops are trash disposable hardware | | |
| ▲ | rwyinuse 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | They are plastic junk, but even they are likely to remain technically functional for more than 5 years. It's mainly things like battery life, screen & keyboard quality that make those laptops annoying. | | |
| ▲ | MangoToupe 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > even they are likely to remain technically functional for more than 5 years Every plastic laptop I've bought has busted within two years, whether it's mechanical stress or poor heat design. They feel less like reliable tools and more like toys. Looking specifically at you, thinkpads. Meanwhile, the MacBook Pro I bought for myself for college 17 years ago still boots. The battery is dead, but that's an incredibly long life for any hardware of that complexity. | | | |
| ▲ | kiliancs 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | In my experience and my family's you are lucky if they last 3 years. If they last 5 years there's usually a subpar experience, e.g. they overheat significantly at 2 years. OTOH, we have a few macbooks > 10 years still working. | | |
| ▲ | goyagoji 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | There's the need to dust fans and then there's the possibility that OS computing requirements have risen which isn't often a Linux thing on old hardware.. OsX had exactly the same problem and had to make a minimizing release IIRC. Computing kind of stagnated since 2010 and plenty of hardware since then still works fine today and is usable enough for many tasks. Apple was nice for needing not all that many different drivers but its statnge integrations like drive fans to bios are obnoxious. | |
| ▲ | LtWorf 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | And macbooks aren't overheating? I've owned old macbooks… I got scalded by the metal screws on the bottom in the summer because apple thought looking sleek was more important than proper cooling. | | |
| ▲ | kiliancs 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | The other laptops overheat soon after purchasing, often with just the bare OS running. There is a 3 yo laptop that my parents still use, but it has to always be plugged in, and the fans will spin loudly even in suspension. My >10 yo macbooks also have bad batteries. One of them won't last one minute, and will also overheat with minor workloads. They were not immune to overheating when new, but unreasonable overhearing (for the time) definitely didn't become an issue at within 3 years of purchase. And that's with Intel macbooks. My M1 from Dec 2020 works like new (I'm sure the battery life has shortened, but not in a way that I notice). It overheated a couple times running LLMs—that's it. That's how I know the fans work. | | | |
| ▲ | JustExAWS 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | ARM MacBooks aren’t overheating. | |
| ▲ | piskov 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | No, it was intel piece of shit that promised new nodes for years and never delivered. Macs were designed up to the thermal specs that should have been but never came. Hence the m1: enough is enough |
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| ▲ | bluecalm 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I am on my 3rd Thinkpad already and while I still like them they are not close to Apple quality. On my current one keyboard touches the screen when it's closed so the screen becomes dirty quickly. After Windows 11 upgrade it auto-dims on battery after like 30 seconds and I can't figure a way to turn it off.
Hibernation never worked properly (apparently AMD/Windows issue).
You don't need to deal with any of that on a Macbook. I would switch instantly if I didn't need to run Windows. | | |
| ▲ | LtWorf 3 days ago | parent [-] | | > Hibernation never worked properly You can blame microsoft for that unfortunately. They made the vendors to change how it all works to workaround windows issues and it didn't even work. | | |
| ▲ | coliveira 3 days ago | parent [-] | | It is amazing that after decades Microsoft still cannot nail such an important usability issue... There's no way I can use Windows laptops full time. | | |
| ▲ | LtWorf 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Problem is they screwed it up for linux users as well, due to hw changes. |
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| ▲ | extraisland 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | The consumer ones yes. The business are very reliable, and easy to repair. I always buy second hand / refurb of repairable models. I've been burned by Apple before. Not touching their stuff again. |
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| ▲ | strix_varius 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Uh he provided counter points to your distortion field comment, he doesn't have to just +1 the exact point of view of the parent comment. But here I'll bite: I've had MBPs for work for like 15 years now and I bought a personal high spec Thinkpad. I now regret that purchase because my work machine is better than my personal machine in literally every way. My over $2k Thinkpad just sits there gathering dust because I don't want to use it. And unlike MacBooks, the secondary market for it is nothing so I can't just sell it and recover most of the loss. | | |
| ▲ | commandersaki 3 days ago | parent [-] | | My 12" powerbook from 2002 lasted well into 2011 until I formally retired it by giving to a mate. Most of my macbook airs have lasted at least 7 to 8 years. None have actually died and were still intact, but I just gave them away, so I don't know how much longer they lasted. My 2015 macbook pro (pre butterfly) is still going strong today; I did a battery replacement myself which was a huge pain in the arse, so it definitely feels replenished. I have replaced many of my family members laptops with M-series laptops, nay issue, and I have a feeling they'll easily go a decade, though at some point they'll all need the battery replaced (but I will probably just have Apple do it this time - unless it is easy now with the repair manuals being available by Apple). | | |
| ▲ | drcongo 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I only recently retired a 2011 MacBook Pro which was running clamshell constantly for nearly all that time, with only one battery replacement due to swelling. |
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| ▲ | pxc 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The sound on MacBooks is impressively loud and clear, but it's also not actually good sound. Because it couldn't be, in that form factor. So for things where you actually care about good sound (i.e., music, movies, TV), you probably still want headphones or speakers anyway. | | |
| ▲ | 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | breakfastduck 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | it does actually sound good | | |
| ▲ | pxc 3 days ago | parent [-] | | If you bought even a small bluetooth speaker that sounded the same as an MBP, you'd think "this thing kinda sucks... no bass, but at least it's small; what do you expect". Either that or you aren't someone who cares about sound (which is fine) | | |
| ▲ | blep-arsh 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I have a stereo system with a DSP which I've spent quite a bit of time adjusting with tools like REW. I do care. I'm obviously adjusting my expectations because the laptop is indeed small but it really does sound great and I prefer it to typically boomy resonating bass-heavy tuning of small speakers. It's also very good at stereo separation, can even do behind-the-listener flyby from a Dolby Atmos test file. | |
| ▲ | KerrAvon 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I’ll wager you have not listened to high-quality music or movies on a recent MacBook Pro. I’ve never heard a BT speaker of any size sound that good. (The HomePod Mini sounds quality really sucks by comparison, FWIW.) | | |
| ▲ | pxc 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > I’ll wager you have not listened to high-quality music or movies on a recent MacBook Pro. Because of this conversation, I just watched Ne Zha (the first one, from 2019) on my M1-generation MacBook Pro. It sounded okay. I didn't hate it like I'd hate listening on a tablet or something. But... > I’ve never heard a BT speaker of any size sound that good. My MacBook Pro didn't sound as good as the smallest bluetooth speaker that I personally own and use (Marshall Kilburn), which is battery powered and whose primary daily use in my life is playing podcasts while I shower. It definitely didn't sound as good as the budget brand PC speakers I use with my TV (Edifier 1700BTs), either-- with or without a subwoofer. It didn't even sound as good as my wireless earbuds, let alone my headphones. I don't think my tastes are that fancy. I've never had a surround sound setup. I've never tried a pair of IEMs. I've never owned or pursued a "audiophile"-grade equipment. I'm not a basshead, either. I can appreciate some of the nice qualities of my MacBook's speakers relative to the form factor. But at the end of the day it still clearly falls in the "not real speakers" bucket. They're laptop speakers, not magic. |
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| ▲ | udev4096 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
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| ▲ | Sayrus 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | As a mostly Dell user I'd add the camera and microphone: the difference in quality on a standalone laptop is just mind blowing. Audio output can be tuned with the right equalizer profile but microphone filtering and camera quality just doesn't come anywhere close to a Macbook. | |
| ▲ | goosedragons 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The MBA screen is /alright/. It's better than a lot of Windows machines but you can get better for the price for sure. I'd argue the screens in the Surface line are comparable and arguably better, 3:2, brighter, 120Hz at basically the same price. And there's loads of 4K OLED Windows laptops if you're willing to pay for them. Apple screens also tend to have pretty bad response times too. They are sharp and color accurate but fall down in places. | | |
| ▲ | kelipso 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Even the Air has a great builtin webcam, so I don’t have to carry around a webcam like I used to do with my old laptop (which is more than 8 years old and I still use because it has replaceable batteries and ssd lol). | | |
| ▲ | goosedragons 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Somewhat unfair since it's technically a tablet, but the Surface Pro webcam is very very good. |
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| ▲ | blep-arsh 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Laptop OLEDs aren't usually the best wrt color accuracy and uniformity. I've tried two. One had green splotches across the screen, the other just displays a certain range of gray shades with a green tint (so e.g. a black-to-white gradient test image has a green band in the middle). And there's always a static noise pattern of sorts due to non-uniform pixel brightness. |
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| ▲ | gigatexal 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This. My 2013 MacBook Pro lasted just shy of 10 years no issues. My m3 max mbpro I only wish was the larger screen one and not the 13 inch one … oh well. But I suspect it will last me — and be passed down as well — 8-10 years as well. The trackpads are second to none. So are the speakers. The screen are pretty good. I wish mine got even brighter but the m4s do. The keyboard is finally awesome. The OS just works. In fact I moved from Linux to MacOS. I thought I’d miss i3 and sway but with Magnet and a launcher I don’t. I live in a terminal and can split that as much as I like. And gui apps Magnet does a decent job. There are projects to go even further and you don’t have to leave MacOS for all the tiling love. https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai
https://github.com/nikitabobko/AeroSpace
https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst But I get basically everything I need with Magnet. So TLDR I used to be a huge Linux head (I still am…) but I’m practical now and tired and macOS is a small price to pay for such amazing hardware. More on why I left Linux as my main platform: https://gigatexal.blog/pages/no-perfect-workstation/no-perfe... | | |
| ▲ | Doohickey-d 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | It's possible to increase the brightness in software on M1, by faking HDR (desktop capture -> scale brightness to HDR -> display). One example: https://www.brightintosh.de/ but there's many others. | | |
| ▲ | gigatexal 3 days ago | parent [-] | | you just made my day I am so happy with this I could kiss you!* just saved me a bunch of coin cuz I was considering trading up for a m4 or otherwise to get better brightness amazing! * more a turn of phrase, a hug, a handshake, a thank you thank you thank you all suffice ;-) I insta bought the suggested app | | |
| ▲ | sersi 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Check out https://github.com/alin23/Lunar it's the most advanced app on mac when it comes to controlling screens | | |
| ▲ | gigatexal 2 days ago | parent [-] | | purchased as well. thanks! was looking for a way to tweak my connected monitors, too. this brings up a good Q -- what monitors other than the absurd Apple XDR are out there that are good at high brightness. I'm loving the brightness above 500 nits on this main screen I want it everywhere. |
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| ▲ | asimovfan 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I read why you left linux as your main platform.. You say you are "practical now and tired" implying GNU(+linux) is unpractical and tiring, which is perfectly wrong in my opinion. Not only my opinion but also in your own opinion, as you also write how package managers are better in linux, macOS is not as hackable, how much it is locked down etc. So it comes down to this paragraph: "I learned to like nice things. I became a bit bougie, hah. I like the build quality of the Apple laptops. The amazing trackpads. The vibrant screens. And how, for the most part, the hardware and software just work together so well. Seamlessly connecting Apple Keyboards to my Apple Laptop, or my Apple Headphones to my Apple Laptop, etc., etc." so boils down to this intangible "bougieness" they tricked you with. I dont know about Apple build quality. I have the experience that they absolutely slow down, break down faster, more expensive to get fixed, and the trackpad is annoying as hell. I haven't had any problems with headphones or connecting keyboards (wireless or wired) in non macOS laptops either. It is 2025 and all my computers work fine with such peripherals. The screens look vibrant i'll give you that, but you pay for it anyway, like you could've paid with another laptop. | | |
| ▲ | sersi 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Well I have a desktop running arch linux as my main computer at home. For my laptop though I use a mbp purely for the build quality because I have never found a laptop that is as good at the current generations of mbps for thermals, trackpad quality, sound quality, screen, battery life. Now personally I'd be happier running linux and I'm looking forward to arch linux on asahi working on my laptop. But I will use macos (which I used to like but has become steadily worse over the years) just because of the hardware | |
| ▲ | gigatexal 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I should monetize my blog for the 5-10 or so people who hate read it ;-) I am not a sane, logical, rational person most of the time ... but I think not many folks are. |
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| ▲ | sudosysgen 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The screen point is just not true anymore. There are quite a few laptops at the ~1000$ price point with significantly better screens, such as the Zenbooks with OLED screens. | |
| ▲ | ozgrakkurt 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Screens are not really that good. My 600$ lenovo has a way better screen than my m1 pro 16” | | |
| ▲ | apfsx 3 days ago | parent [-] | | What Lenovo model + screen option do you have that is better than the M1 Pro 16 inch screen? I've yet to see anything better. | | |
| ▲ | ozgrakkurt 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | It has an OLED screen so image quality isn’t even comparable. It is worse in terms of glare but not unusable and I don’t use it outside much | | |
| ▲ | alecthomas 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Which $600 model has an OLED screen? | | |
| ▲ | ozgrakkurt 3 days ago | parent [-] | | https://www.microcenter.com/product/678489/lenovo-ideapad-sl... This one is very similar. I bought mine from Thailand | | |
| ▲ | Copernicron 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > 16" WUXGA IPS Anti-Glare Display > $689.99 That computer has neither an OLED display nor a price of $600. | |
| ▲ | foldr 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | This has a WXUGA display, i.e. 1920x1200. It’s not comparable to the high DPI display on the MacBook Pro. | | |
| ▲ | WillAdams 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | One quite nice display is the 2880 x 1800 16" OLED on the Samsung Galaxy Book series --- I kind of miss it when using my MacBook Pro. | | |
| ▲ | foldr 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Sure, Apple doesn’t have a monopoly on nice displays, but they’ll sell you a laptop with a high DPI display for $1000. It’s hard to get a laptop with a comparable display for much less. And if you save any money you’ll pay for it in performance and build quality. |
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| ▲ | dmbche 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | What specifically isn't comparable? Comparable. Things you can't compare between two laptop screens. |
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| ▲ | reactordev 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | He doesn’t have nano texture, I can guarantee that. His screen probably has fingerprints and glare and all sorts of issues like visible pixels. I’ve owned a hell of a lot of laptops and MacBooks are the best, not because of Mac, but because of the build quality. The touchpad is perfect, the aluminum body is rugged, the screen is amazing, and the audio truly is sorcery thanks to Apple acquiring Beat’s audionet. The worst laptop for build quality were those HP Chromebooks. ThinkPad’s are mid tier but still made of plastic. Yoga foldable or a MS Surface is better. MSI or Razor if you don’t feel like ever touching your laptop (:fire:) | | |
| ▲ | zozbot234 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | "Visible pixels" are a total non-issue already on a 1080p screen, and a near-non issue on 768p. There's just no ambiguity about this, it's a matter of simple physics. Maybe you'll need to go up to a 1200p screen or thereabouts to cope with crappy rendering on the software side (allowing for a 0.7x factor or so in image spatial bandwidth/resolution due to lack of proper anti-aliasing), but anything above that is just plain overkill. Unless you like to look at tiny portions of your screen with a frickin' magnifying glass, of course. | | |
| ▲ | foldr 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | You can definitely see the resolution difference between a 1080p 13" display and a 13" 'retina' display. You may not care about it, but I think it's uncontroversial that it's a visible difference. | |
| ▲ | reactordev 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I don’t wear glasses, I can see pixels on a 1080p screen just fine whereas on a Retina display or anything with 4k+ I can’t at a normal distance. Glad you know how my eyes work. You probably will say next that I can’t see the refresh. | | |
| ▲ | zozbot234 3 days ago | parent [-] | | You can see pixels up close on a 1080p screen if you have good eyesight, but that's not the way you're supposed to work with a screen as a matter of ergonomics. Even on a laptop, you're always looking at the screen as a whole, not just seeing a tiny portion of it in your field of view. | | |
| ▲ | reactordev 3 days ago | parent [-] | | I can see pixels at rest when sitting at my desk and a 1080p monitor 27” or more is on it. Thanks for letting me know how my eyes work. | | |
| ▲ | zozbot234 3 days ago | parent [-] | | That's exactly what I meant by "up close". A 27'' monitor should be 3 or 4 ft. away in order to comfortably look at the whole screen. Any other choice is terrible ergonomics. | | |
| ▲ | reactordev 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Ugh, it is 3-4 feet away when it’s on my desk. Jesus. Want to keep going? Keep telling me I’m looking at it wrong. |
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| ▲ | _bent 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | you might want to check in with an ophthalmologist |
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| ▲ | ezst 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > He doesn’t have nano texture© […] His screen probably has fingerprints and glare and all sorts of issues like visible pixels. Thanks Tim, but I prefer my day without bullshit propaganda. | | | |
| ▲ | pxc 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Laptops only get fingerprints on the screen, unless they're touchscreens, when they try to be stupidly thin like MacBooks do, so that the screen routinely touches the keys. It's stupid design. | | |
| ▲ | sarlalian 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Or if you use your fingers to move the display… a fairly common action with a laptop. | | |
| ▲ | pxc 2 days ago | parent [-] | | This also a function of the same design trends tbh. One can have a reasonably sized laptop where it's not difficult to do this by the bezel rather than the display. |
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| ▲ | romanovcode 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > - The trackpad (but other manufacturers now have tolerable alternatives and anyway you can work without it) It is my understanding that Apple did lock their trackpad tech behind a patent and that is why all the others suck. So it's really not their fault and it is very unfortunate if that's the case. | | |
| ▲ | garbagepatch 3 days ago | parent [-] | | I'd like to see the others go for the tech behind the Steamdeck touchpads. That's way better. |
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| ▲ | zackify 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The trackpad still cannot be beaten. Please someone show me one that can compare haha | | | |
| ▲ | 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | kaladin-jasnah 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Interestingly, I really don't like MacBook trackpads. The actuation force is too high for my taste. Maybe this has changed. | | |
| ▲ | proee 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I always just enable tap to click and also adjust the speed to max. Once your brain gets use to this it works great (for me). | |
| ▲ | KerrAvon 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That’s controlled entirely by software, and you can lower it or raise it if you so desire. | | |
| ▲ | kaladin-jasnah 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Oh! Well, either way, I'm not interested in Apple products because of their stances on repairability. |
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| ▲ | chrisweekly 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's adjustable | |
| ▲ | manaskarekar 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | And they're too large. I know, super unpopular opinion. I prefer the middle of the road size on trackpads with the physical buttons form the dell latitudes of 2010s. They work remarkably well with linux too. The clickpads are pretty imprecise and poor, and compared to this the Macbook is much nicer. |
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| ▲ | 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | realusername 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I agree for the screen and the audio but the trackpad on the mac is significantly different from any other laptop so you either love it or hate it. Personally I hate it and would rate it similarly as a cheap laptop. My brother loves it though. | | |
| ▲ | imcritic 3 days ago | parent [-] | | What's there to hate in it? | | |
| ▲ | realusername 3 days ago | parent [-] | | It's hard to describe, when you never used a mac in your life, it feels weird with plenty of ghost inputs. To each their own but I really don't want my laptop to imitate that. |
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| ▲ | lostlogin 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Some of the Apple integrations are so great. Copy and paste between devices, airdrop, call handling and messaging, the notes app, preview app. PDF handling (my god is the windows default hot garbage in comparison). Yes, other apps and companies do this, but out the box there are some pretty great options from Apple. | | |
| ▲ | blakblakarak 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Using my IPad as a second monitor still feels like sorcery. I can have a dual monitor setup wherever I work without cables or fuss. | |
| ▲ | gigatexal 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | All very true! Seamless integration with my AirPods is really nice. |
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| ▲ | winrid 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Apple screens are terrible. They use PWM at all brightness levels just to save a couple bucks and burn my eyes. | |
| ▲ | ant6n 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > The screen : at an equivalent price point (and even more), nothing comes close to Apple screens. The cheapest MacBook have a better screen than most high end PCs. The screen is a mirrowy mess. PC Laptop with matte screens cost 500, MacBook 1500. |
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| ▲ | msh 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think that a lot comes down to apple only selling quality laptop but a brand like Lenovo sells both cheap crap and quality laptops. So if you tell someone buy a apple laptop you know they will get a good laptop but if you tell them to buy a Lenovo they might end up with the worst crap. |
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| ▲ | Novosell 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I believe this is one of the main contributing factors in people who strongly prefer iOS devices over Android as well. With iOS, there are no options really. You buy high end or you don't buy. With Android, people will end up buying some 150-200€ phone and being shocked it doesn't compare to their 1100€ iPhone. | | |
| ▲ | nicoburns 3 days ago | parent [-] | | It's different now with the main Android manufacturers offering 5-7 years of security updates. But for a long time the lifetime of an Android device was 2 (maybe 3) years, where as iPhones offered 5 years (maybe up to 7). Perhaps not relevant if you're the sort of person who upgrades every year or two anyway. But a big deal if you're not. |
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| ▲ | articsputnik 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | that's a good point. and for sure also one element of why we discuss using past each other here in the comments for some things |
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| ▲ | gbalduzzi 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I believe there is a similar situation in the mobile space with iphones, at least here is Europe where they are not ubiquitous. Most people use cheaper android phones, that are slower and with a much shorted timespan. then they try a 1k€ iPhone and it is great and conclude they prefer the iPhone to Android: it is not an apple to apple comparison, you should compare it to a 1k€ android lol. Same things happens on laptops. If you try to use a 500-600€ laptop as work main machine for multiple years it will fall apart. Than you try a MacBook and it feels great because after 5 years is still usable. |
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| ▲ | trinix912 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | You can easily pay $1000+ for a Windows laptop and still end up with a worse trackpad or keyboard than what all MacBooks have. I've made that mistake myself. | | |
| ▲ | cruano 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I got a razer blade that is around the same price as a macbook. At first it seemed like great build quality, but after replacing an inflated battery, an SSD that liked to shut off randomly and being blocked off latest windows due to the "old" CPU (this is a 2018-2019 laptop mind you) I've given up on it. Meanwhile my mom is still using my 2013 Macbook Air | |
| ▲ | rkomorn 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | The trackpad on my X1 Nano (and the associated Linux experience) is a daily annoyance to me compared to the macOS+M1 MacBook Air experience. I have way more accidental touches, drags, wrong palm detection, etc. Windows isn't much better (or is arguably worse because "natural scrolling" still somehow isn't an out of the box thing). | | |
| ▲ | ezst 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Funny thing to say in 2025, but you are probably better off using Linux. The Windows drivers ecosystem is a mess, manufacturers don't care to develop or maintain drivers beyond the "get the product out of the door" phase. | | |
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| ▲ | poink 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | My experience in the mobile space from having a personal lab with all the flagship phones paid for by my employer was that the hardware on the Android phones was at least as good as Apple but everyone other than Google made the software side feel janky It wasn’t bad, and I’m sure I’d just get used to it if I picked one and lived with it, the same way I’ve gotten used to Apple’s dumb photo app Using them side by side made it really obvious tho | | |
| ▲ | poink 3 days ago | parent [-] | | (That said, I liked the Pixel 4a better than the iPhone 15 Pro I’m typing this on) | | |
| ▲ | ezst 3 days ago | parent [-] | | FWIW, I liked the Pixel 4a better than the Pixel 9 I'm typing this on | | |
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| ▲ | amelius 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yes, buy a flagship Samsung phone and you'll see how Apple is lightyears behind in design. | |
| ▲ | mirzap 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | You simply can't compare anything to MacBooks. I had a Dell that I paid about $2,000 for, and it was really good (or so I thought). Then at work, I got a MacBook Pro, and that's when I saw the difference. Its not only the Pros, no "high-end" laptop running Windows or Linux with just 8GB of RAM can perform better than a MacBook Air with 8GB. I don't know how Apple has optimized memory usage, but my personal feeling is that 8GB of RAM on Macs is equivalent to 32GB on non-Apple devices. I'm not some Apple fanboy—I've been using Arch Linux daily for the past month or two, and it's great. However, there isn't a day that passes without screen freezes during peak usage, and I need to reboot every day or two. This happens despite having 32GB of RAM, an RTX 4060, and a Ryzen 5 7600. That never happens with my 5-year-old MacBook Air. I really wish Linux were as good as macOS, I really do. I'm pushing myself to use it even though I experience frustration every day, but this simply isn't the case. It's easy to optimize the system and applications for one specific hardware configuration (like Apple does), but it's very hard, if not impossible, to do this for every possible hardware combination available today. That's why Linux and Windows can't win this performance battle. | | |
| ▲ | GCUMstlyHarmls 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | For what little an internet strangers comment is worth, I had similar issues and they disappeared when I swapped from Nvidia to AMD at the start of this year. Nvidia's drivers have had some kind of push since then but they have always been sort of wonky. | | |
| ▲ | mirzap 3 days ago | parent [-] | | This is interesting to hear. I bought Nvidia because I thought they had better drivers and have a lot of support for AI and stuff, but now, in retrospect, this seems like a bad idea. | | |
| ▲ | PurestGuava 3 days ago | parent [-] | | For AI, NVidia does have better tech, but on Linux at least the driver situation with AMD is infinitely better. | | |
| ▲ | mirzap 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Oh, this was a great thread. I just investigated a bit which drivers I use, gpu.. And it turns out my arch was using built-in GPU (how?) glxinfo | grep "OpenGL renderer"
OpenGL renderer string: AMD Radeon Graphics (radeonsi, raphael_mendocino, LLVM 20.1.8, DRM 3.64, 6.16.0-arch2-1) I've added a few env parameters Claude suggested in ~/.config/hypr/hyprland.conf, and now it shows:
OpenGL renderer string: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 Will give it a try few days, to see how it behaves. | | |
| ▲ | likeclockwork 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Wow. Your original comment reads very differently now. | | |
| ▲ | mbreese 2 days ago | parent [-] | | It also inadvertently proves their point. The strength of Apple hardware is the OS integration. This level of integration and polish is only possible because of the limited components they have to support. Even if you have powerful components on the PC side (Windows or Linux), you're at the mercy of a few different vendors and how well they support the hardware. And even if you get supported components, it's possible to get yourself into situations where your configuration is sub-optimal. Versus a Mac where you can just start it and get working. It's possible with PC hardware, but it takes more work for the customer (or vendor). |
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| ▲ | hermanzegerman 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You really come off as a Hardcore Apple Fanboy > Its not only the Pros, no "high-end" laptop running Windows or Linux with just 8GB of RAM can perform better than a MacBook Air with 8GB Doesn't matter because for the equivalent price you can load up your non-Apple Machine with RAM to the Max, same with SSD Storage. With a MacBook you would need to prepare to cough up, up to 9k more than the base model for a huge SSD and RAM. No more than 1k for this elsewhere > ve been using Arch Linux daily for the past month or two, and it's great. However, there isn't a day that passes without screen freezes during peak usage, and I need to reboot every day or two. I don't need to reboot for Weeks, I'm using Fedora though. It sounds like you're doing something terribly wrong, as most Linux Users also don't need to reboot ever 1-2 days. Maybe you should try a more beginner friendly distro if Arch is too complex for you | | |
| ▲ | mirzap 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I use WebStorm, CLion, Cursor, 2-3 Claude Code instances, Chrome/Brave with 50+ tabs, Docker, and a bunch of other things on MacBook Air all at the same time. It works. Never freezes. Never crashes. I tried that on Windows recently, and now on Arch with a lot more memory (32), and it simply can't handle it. I reboot daily. Freezes in the middle of the work. It may be the issue with nvidia drivers as other pointed out, but that's precisely my point. Apple has very limited number of drivers to maintain, and they can improve them to perfection. They are not perfect, of course, but compared to alternatives, it's light-years ahead. | | |
| ▲ | svelle 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I also use a MacBook as my daily driver, but have used different ThinkPads for years and there is no way that that workload should bring any medium specced TP to its knees like you're describing. | | |
| ▲ | mirzap 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Good to know. Many people recommend ThinkPads, but my experience has been with Dell. In the future, I might consider a ThinkPad or a Framework laptop. | | |
| ▲ | rwyinuse 3 days ago | parent [-] | | I use Dell at work, Thinkpad at home. Either gets the job done, but to me it's clear Thinkpads have superior quality, at least if you don't go for the cheapest model. Keyboard and battery life are so much better on my old Thinkpad compared to 2 years newer Dell of same price range. |
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| ▲ | wltr 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I don’t know for sure, I need to confirm it, but it feels like my similarly specced Arch machine would just shrug at it. It’s a 10 years old PC, yet it feels like it’s a non issue for it to handle this. I bet my MacBook Pro from 2014 (with Arch too) won’t even start a fan. It depends on these 50 tabs, I guess, but the rest is just doesn’t feel like a big deal to handle. | |
| ▲ | altcognito 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Ollama crashed my MacBook just last week, they definitely crash, as they might not have created the “report this application” feature if they didn’t. | |
| ▲ | sensanaty 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I dunno I use similar apps on my work-provided 32GB M1 Pro and that thing chugs along horribly after a certain point. I still get the spinning beach ball from time to time, and the massive work Vue codebase in Webstorm is so fucking slow that it can take upwards of 10 seconds for type intellisense to give me results in tiny files, with constant freezing. The same doesn't happen on my personal linux machines, my work codebase is incredibly speedy there. Don't get me started on MacOS itself and its myriad of problems. | |
| ▲ | hermanzegerman 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | My 10 year old ThinkPad can handle RStudio,PyCharms, VSCode with Copilot Agent and Firefox with 30+ Tabs open just fine on 32 GB RAM and Fedora. Again, I don't think the issue here is Linux itself |
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| ▲ | 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | cycomanic 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > You simply can't compare anything to MacBooks. I had a Dell that I paid about $2,000 for, and it was really good (or so I thought). Then at work, I got a MacBook Pro, and that's when I saw the difference.
>
> Its not only the Pros, no "high-end" laptop running Windows or Linux with just 8GB of RAM can perform better than a MacBook Air with 8GB. I don't know how Apple has optimized memory usage, but my personal feeling is that 8GB of RAM on Macs is equivalent to 32GB on non-Apple devices.
> Thanks for confirming my point, we have actual benchmarks that objectively show this isn't the case but apple fanboys still make these sort of claims. The same with battery life, if you listen to apple fanboys you get the impression that battery life above 5h was simply unheard off until the M1 came along. I had a x200 in 2009 or 2010 that was giving me 10h+ in the large battery and I could even swap over to the smaller one to get another 6h (?) or so. > I'm not some Apple fanboy—I've been using Arch Linux daily for the past month or two, and it's great. However, there isn't a day that passes without screen freezes during peak usage, and I need to reboot every day or two. This happens despite having 32GB of RAM, an RTX 4060, and a Ryzen 5 7600. That never happens with my 5-year-old MacBook Air. The only thing I can say to that is that in my experience nvidia drivers have become objectively worse over the last 2 years. On my desktop I used to be able to play games without issues, but recently lots of them lock up after a while (only in games in my experience). My Intel laptop never has any issues. I'm now actively looking for an AMD GPU because it has become so annoying. | | |
| ▲ | dijit 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Come on, let’s be real for a moment. two things could be possibly true, people are sheep and people who interact with the platform can enjoy it so much that they become fans. This means that any person who actually enjoys using the technology is immediately dismissible because now they are fans. Right? It’s so stupid because I’m a die hard linux user but I can definitely appreciate my Apple devices. I’ve had this discussion so many times in real life, what is the value of a ThinkPad T-series over a ThinkPad E-series; or a HP Elitebook over an Ideabook? The specification looks the same, on paper. Why should I convince my employer to fork out an extra €500? The truth is, the things that really matter to people don’t fit very well on a spec sheet. Build quality, palm rejection, colour accuracy, enjoyable sound, even the feel of the chassis. Apple seems to put a lot of care and attention into these things, so yes, they’ve optimised the operating system to be more pleasurable to use… and so it is, even in low memory conditions- they prioritise things the user might care about. (The currently active program, being responsive etc). I’ll give another example, The Commodore64. It is so comically weak compared to even the micro processor inside my keyboard… so if compared to a full-blown desktop computer of the modern day (which is thousands of times more powerful still…) I should feel like the modern computer is better. Yet when I type on a Commodore 64 it is so immediate… there is no lag in typing, the words appear on the screen as quickly as they are pressed, it feels mechanical. It feels immediate. it feels direct. Why? Clearly the Commodore 64 has much fewer resources, but it feels so much nicer to write text on a Commodore 64. Not because of the keyboard (I have a better one), not because of the processor (because it’s a weaker one). But because the latency of typing is so low that it is barely perceptible and that goes directly against the specification. One cannot infer user experience from spec sheets. And people interacting with the Apple ecosystem who become fans might have a point. No matter how much you don’t want to hear it. | |
| ▲ | cycomanic 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I can definitely appreciate that some people like apple hardware and software. I have a colleague who swears by it, he also only uses defaults on any software out of principle. It's not my thing, and I get frustrated every time I sit in front of a mac and can't change things the way I want. That's OK, everyone is different. What is annoying and was why I posted is that a significant number of apple users become fans as you say and somehow view everything that apple does as extraordinary, that leads to statements like in the article that apple is "crazy good" because the used laptops for 5 years without having to repair them. Surely you can admit that that is nothing special?!
Similarly, saying osx runs as good on 8 GB as Windows or Linux on 32GB that's just objectively not true. There's been plenty of objective benchmarks which showed differently and I have used macs enough to know that if ram gets tight they grind to a halt just as much. I just don't understand the fanboyism about a brand that it becomes like supporting a football club. Do I like thinkpads, yes I had good experiences (and I have trouble with laptops without a trackpoint). Am I a fan? No, Lenovo is just a company which makes plenty of crap, i.e. the new X1 carbon i got from work is a hot piece of garbage. |
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| ▲ | udev4096 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > using Arch Linux daily for the past month or two No wonder you are facing non-existent issues. Stop blaming it on Arch. If it was widespread, there would be a fix by now for it. You messed it up. It's upto you to solve it. Also it's not "your mac". Apple has full remote access and can brick "your mac" anytime. With apple, you get the feeling of owning without actually owning anything. Gotta give it to them | |
| ▲ | herbst 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I've had a MacBook Pro for about a year. I've got actual burns from the case, I couldn't use a external screen without it being attached to power and it was incredibly loud, I didn't like the OS, the support I've witnessed was horrible, ... I know many people like their macs but it's not that single perfekt machine people want it to be | |
| ▲ | p_ing 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | MacOS isn’t more memory efficient, you can’t be when using 16KiB pages vs 4KiB. That’s a lot of wasted memory. | | |
| ▲ | mirzap 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | My experience running multiple bloated Java JetBrains IDEs, Chrome with 50+ tabs, begs to differ. | | |
| ▲ | p_ing 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Reread my comment. Yes, macOS (or ARM, here) wastes memory. For every 1KiB page you have, you're wasting 15KiB of memory. That's just how this works. It's a performance vs. efficiency tradeoff. And there's nothing special about your workload. It's small in comparison to many others that many other OSes on many other ISAs, including Windows & x86 w/ AWE, have been running for quite some time with no issue. | | |
| ▲ | tredre3 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > For every 1KiB page you have, you're wasting 15KiB of memory. Applications do not allocate memory through the kernel, though. There's a layer between the application code and the kernel, usually the libc or equivalent, that takes the page and fills it with smaller allocations. And most allocators out there usually request pretty big chunks at a time too, measured in megabytes/hundreds of pages. So what you are saying might be technically true if you were to dispatch all mallocs to the kernel, it is not actually true in the real world. |
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| ▲ | udev4096 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] |
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| ▲ | udev4096 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's definitely not. I use mac pro for work and it chugs around 16GiB (out of 64) of RAM on IDLE! It also has the worst keyboard I have ever used with a crazy big trackpad which I absolutely hate | | |
| ▲ | saagarjha 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I don't think you understand how memory accounting works on modern OSes? When the machine is idling, it will have a bunch of stuff in RAM because why wouldn't it? |
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| ▲ | ho_schi 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| My X220 from 2012 also runs fine. I use now use a X13 because AMD Zen3+ is faster and provides much more battery runtime. The magnesium chassis and the crisp keyboard are awesome. This stuff last long: * Build quality, regarding chassis and screws.
* Replacement parts are available. Hardware maintenance manual is available. A broken palm rest is something fixable.
* Handle it with care.
Most people don’t care about the cheap consumer laptops. Neither the manufacturer nor the consumer. Windows degrades quickly through updates, software bloat (e.g. Electron) and anti-virus snakeoil makes everything slow and unreliable.The biggest issue of ThinkPads is that the L-Series can be purchased (same hardware, bad chassis) and that bad panels can be ordered. Recently Lenovo removed the HiDPI panel option from the X13. Which is the worst possible idea. Another dumb idea is the ugly and useless camera bump protruding from the panel. Apple takes always a lot money from and prevents these mistakes. But Apple loves to deliver bad keyboards. And the aluminium chassis is bad in comparison to magnesium chassis (much better feeling, never hot or cold). Avoidable mistakes. None of these are hard challenges. As the biggest mistake “six rows keyboards”. The complete industry ruined laptop with 16:9 and after a decade we’re allowed to enjoy the much better 16:10 again. The keyboards are still small, squeezed things with awkwardly grouped keys. The X220 keyboard is a masterpiece in layout. |
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| ▲ | dijit 3 days ago | parent [-] | | an x220 also costed the same as a macbook pro at the time. (I know, because I had both, fully upgraded) |
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| ▲ | jeffhwang 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I’ve had 5 personal Mac laptops over the last 25 years. And all of them overlapped their service lives bc I usually had 2 active laptops at a time. None were the Pro, just iBooks and MacBook Airs. The one I just retired was my portable workhorse from 2014-2024. I got annoyed towards the end bc the latest OS wasn’t supported (but still got security updates for my old macOS version at least). Overall, I never needed to replaced battery, hard drive, cpus, screens or really any of the hardware on any of them over 2 decades. And I got at least 6 yrs out of each one. |
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| ▲ | herbst 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Every ThinkPad I ever owned is still setup and waiting to be used. My T420 is about 14 years old and I still use it from time to time. It was older than 5 years when I got it. |
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| ▲ | footy 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I had a MacBook once that lasted for 13 years, and that's what I used to assume people meant by "crazy good lifespan". Once on this site I saw someone talking about how the lifespan is so good they only had to replace their MacBook every two years instead of every year, and it just made me realize "crazy good lifespan" is meaningless. |
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| ▲ | joaogui1 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Not necessarily meaningless, but maybe relative, i.e. a person who generally replaces non-Apple laptops every X years would replace MacBooks every Y years, with Y > X |
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| ▲ | jaredklewis 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| IME I tend to get a new MacBook every five years or so just because I like new hardware, but none of my old MacBooks were anywhere near end of life after 5 years. One I gave to a relative was in use for around 13 years until it failed (but it was really abused so I actually think it was a good run). My wife’s MacBook Air is 12 years old and my wife doesn’t want a new one (though it would drive me crazy). No issues yet, though obviously battery is not what it once was. Anyway, I think MacBooks last much longer than 5 years if you can control your new hardware envy. |
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| ▲ | ericmcer 3 days ago | parent [-] | | My gf uses my ~10yo air and it is amazing she can stand it. Just website inefficiency creep has made older devices obsolete, I think it has around 4gb of Ram which Chrome can chew through with a few tabs open. |
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| ▲ | madduci 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I don't understand the claim. Since 2012 I have also.owned only Lenovo laptops and I've changed it only for a more performing one every 5/6 years, but they are still working flawlessly. |
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| ▲ | articsputnik 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| OP here, thanks for the comment. True, I should have elaborated a bit more. Actually my 10 years old MacBook is still running as my wife's computer and the 15 years computer, I gave to a friend, which used it for a long time (not sure if still). My comparison was with Windows PCs, that always were super slowish after 2-3 years. The built quality always felt cheap. The battery was done after 2 years. Maybe it was also an unfair comparison, that I bought cheaper PCs, but at work I recently had to a dev HP laptop much later, and I had a very similar experience. So maybe the problem is more windows than the PCs, but if you have used MacBooks, then you definitely know the difference. Running a Lenovo now, I love the much other things. Let's see how long it holds. ThinkPads are defenitely in a similar categories as Macbooks, kind of unbreakable. Love them too. |
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| ▲ | ndriscoll 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Definitely just a Windows issue, and even there I'm sure Windows 7 (the last usable Windows) on a 10 year old computer with an SSD would still feel fairly snappy. I use Linux on a ~9 year old computer and everything except editing photos/videos is instant. I don't know whether to expect demosaicing to be faster on newer CPUs. IIRC a new CPU might have hardware decode for 10 bit 4:2:2 h265, so that would help. | |
| ▲ | zozbot234 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > My comparison was with Windows PCs, that always were super slowish after 2-3 years. If a Windows PC is "super slowish" after 2-3 years, that's a Windows problem. You may want to run Linux as your main OS and booting Windows in a VM only for critical needs. Good Linux installs don't get "super slowish" at all unless you're running them on real bottom-of-the-barrel hardware. | | |
| ▲ | articsputnik 3 days ago | parent [-] | | agreed. that's why i moved on now from macos to linux :). also installed Omarchy linux on a very old dell laptop, and it was super fast compared to windows. |
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| ▲ | anonzzzies 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I like thinkpads and use my x220 from 2012 or what is it quite a lot. For my work, it beat my mbp 16' intel one I had in 2019 on just feeling faster (with Linux). But the apple silicon airs (for me airs: pros are just too bulky) ones are not beaten at the moment. And I try a lot as I really want to run Linux and not mac os x. But there is nothing better for many reasons (most mentioned here and yeah I could care less about the sound). I sponsor asahi linux for that reason. If Chinese vendors would be smart, they would open up whatever hardware they ship and get all geeks on board which pushes the rest. They are not though so for now, it's macbook airs for me. Hoping for Frame.work to get there though. |
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| ▲ | socalgal2 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I agree with your point that 5yrs is not "crazy good" I have a mid 2014 15.6" Macbook Pro. It still runs fine. Apple doesn't support it though. I'm also not claiming 11 years is "crazy good" either. On the opposite side though, I don't like giving old machines to non-techies. I'm actually planning to get rid of that 2014 MBP since it's sat plugged in but basically unused for 4 years, but I don't like the idea of a non-techie taking it and not getting security updates. If someone wanted it I'd prefer they know what they're getting. Sure it will view websites, run video from youtube, etc... but no support. Runs crazy hot too. |
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| ▲ | phantomathkg 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Why not recycle it? I thought Apple in general can trade in old device? | | |
| ▲ | udev4096 3 days ago | parent [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | tomhow a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Can you just quit with this inane style of posting, littered with juvenile swipes like this: > Crapple > Keep coping apple fanboy > it's not "your iCrap" > winblows > Clownflare We've had to ask you to observe the guidelines before, and if anything your comments are only getting worse. HN is only a place where people want to participate because (at least some) others make an effort to keep the standards up. You seem intent on dragging HN into the gutter whilst also throwing out barbs at other community members or the community as a whole. It's not clever and it's not what HN is for. Please stop this, or we'll have to ban the account. | | |
| ▲ | udev4096 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | I have created tons of posts which reached at top. The quality of HN members has deteriorated, stop calling me out. I can have my own acronyms, stop censoring my comments | | |
| ▲ | tomhow 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | The guidelines apply to equally everyone, and plenty of users who post highly-ranking submissions take care to observe the guidelines and contribute positively to the community in all their posts. People have been proclaiming the decline of HN's quality since months after its inception. It still keeps growing, and most importantly, keeps becoming a better place for showcasing new projects. Everyone can make the choice about whether their role on HN will be to raise the standards or to drag them downwards. The choice is yours, but consider that some of the people downvoting and flagging your comments are the users who are notable for consistently making the most positive contributions to HN over the long term. |
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| ▲ | trinix912 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Which large hardware company is any better in this aspect? |
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| ▲ | unethical_ban 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yes they are that good, and "lasting five years" might not mean physically functioning vs not. It could be "meets my computing needs". Yes it could also mean "before the nonservicable battery dies". I have a 2008 Acer, a 2018 Thinkpad, a 2019 HP, a 2024 framework, and a 2024 MacBook. I can't stand 1080p for personal use anymore, and never in my life on Windows or Linux have I gotten more than 4 hours out of a battery. Framework competes on repairability, price and OS choice. Pound for pound, MacBook is a much better piece of hardware. |
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| ▲ | setopt 2 days ago | parent [-] | | My 2021 M1 MacBook is still good, but my 2020 Intel MacBook Air (16GB RAM) has felt unusable since 2022 or so. After upgrading macOS past Big Sur it just got unusably slow, would randomly hang or have high idle CPU usage, battery power was short lived, and it was constantly hot. I therefore downgraded it to Catalina and was happy to have my laptop back, until Homebrew and App Store wouldn’t let me install new things anymore, then I upgraded it to the latest macOS again and found it unusable again. Now I’m not sure whether to install Linux on it (I’ve used Linux as my main OS before the Mac), or try to downgrade to Catalina again and just build whatever software I need from source. |
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| ▲ | throwaway31131 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Defect rate is a probability distribution so some people will get 10 heads in a row and others will get 10 tails, and since it’s the internet, and since it’s kinda amazing we hear about both. But most people get a mixture and post nothing. Every IT survey I’ve ever seen shows Macs as more reliable. On the other hand the repairs are often more expensive. So there’s a trade off. For me, my M1 16” is a champ. The computer is almost too good. I’d like to upgrade but honestly there’s no reason to so I just can’t get myself to ditch a perfectly good computer. |
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| ▲ | deltarholamda 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I set up some Thinkpads from (I think) 2004 to use during Covid when some employees were doing work from home. Replaced the rust drive with an SSD and they used VNC to get onto their work desktops. It's a CAD shop with most everything on the server, so it's not feasible to do WFH with a laptop (not enough grunt, moving data over the Internet is slow), and it made much more sense to just do VNC. This worked quite well. The Thinkpads were even (just) fast enough to do YouTube. The point is that it really quite depends on what your workload is. If I made them use AutoCAD on these machines from 2004 they'd quit. This particular workflow was not ideal, but doable. I have a 2020 M1 MB Air that I would love to replace, but it would be daft to. I don't bump up against any limitations. One of my kids uses my old 2011 MB Pro for his school, which granted I did upgrade to an SSD as well, but even so it's quite usable. Mac hardware has been pretty consistently good for a very long time. They've had some stinkers (hello MacTV), but otherwise you can usually depend on them. Like others I'm not thrilled with some of the OS changes, but the alternatives aren't a lot better. Windows keeps shooting itself in the foot, and chasing the Linux desktop is an exercise best left to those young enough to have the patience. I'm so done with distro-hopping. |
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| ▲ | swiftcoder 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > So from my experience a 5 year lifetime for a macbook is really nothing special and definitely not "crazy good". I doubt they are dead after 5 years - I have a number of decade+ old MacBooks kicking around the family, and they work just fine. It's more that anyone in software is going to need to upgrade around the 5 year mark anyway, because too much shit has changed in the outside world (for example, Apple's transition to ARM processors, or Windows 11 requiring recent TPM support). |
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| ▲ | cycomanic 3 days ago | parent [-] | | > > So from my experience a 5 year lifetime for a macbook is really nothing special and definitely not "crazy good".
>
> I doubt they are dead after 5 years - I have a number of decade+ old MacBooks kicking around the family, and they work just fine.
> Yes I agree Apple make good quality hardware and I would be surprised if they died after 5 years. My objection is simply these statements that overly praise apple for things that are pretty bogstandard. > It's more that anyone in software is going to need to upgrade around the 5 year mark anyway, because too much shit has changed in the outside world (for example, Apple's transition to ARM processors, or Windows 11 requiring recent TPM support). One more reason to run Linux. | | |
| ▲ | swiftcoder 3 days ago | parent [-] | | > One more reason to run Linux. If only we could convince the platform gatekeepers to support linux. iOS is unfortunately a not inconsequential market to abandon, and there's no great way to build iOS software in a pure linux environment. |
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| ▲ | ajuc 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I bought Lenovo laptop back in 2016. It's still working - now as a media Control center. The only problems with it were LCD screen showing "deglueing" like there's a drop of transparent liquid behind the screen in 1 corner, and keyboard not working for a few keys. Neither are relevant for the current application. Both problems appeared long past 5 years of usage, more like 7-8 years after I bought it. In fact I don't remember having a computer fail on me in within 5 years since I bought it. And I was buying cheapest crap possible for majority of the last 25 years. I don't have much experience with Macs, but from talking with friends it seems they break more not less often. |
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| ▲ | simonh 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I don’t know what he’s talking about. I’ve not had a Mac last less than 7 years as a main workhorse, and my 2014 first generation 5k 27” is still going strong as a living room machine. It could still be my daily driver to be honest. |
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| ▲ | crossroadsguy 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| MacBooks are great laptops until the day they break and you are out of warranty; or you are in warranty and Apple in its infinite wisdom and power decides they are not going to honour that repair. So MacBooks are laptops which you use with the constant hope that it doesn't break. So are MacBooks just another level? Of course not! If you have to use something with the constant fear of it breaking down (and then the only options remaining buying a new one or repairing at the cost often as much or sometimes more than the cost of laptop itself) then that's anything but great. But what infuriates me is people asking "but how many times has that happened?", well, enough times in about half a lifetime! And their extra warranty (which are for + or +2 years, not sure) now cost a lot more than it cost the last time (w.r.t device price) I bought their extended warranty in 2012. The problem is other than repair bankruptcy, other laptops, esp. at the lower segment of macs (Air et al), there really are not many good laptops in those prices. X1s are costly laptops. But if they offer comparable features then I'd say for repairability alone they will be great replacements. > and don't have any issues either. It's very different from something being great. While I absolutely hate Apple making their devices impossible to repair and fact more so making it an unwise decision to even try to repair for the cost, their laptops are actually quite good. But it stops there. Their phones are like ages behind competition and they have a business because of a captive/hostage user base :) |
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| ▲ | jayd16 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Fit and finish is good and Apple has been good at leveraging minimalist designs in premium materials. Even if a MacBook is very old, it's hard to say it looks or feels old. And the real irony is past 5 years it drops off a cliff because of Intel Mac End of life. Most people really don't care about tech specs for a daily driver. I mean, I love specs but my coffee table laptop is a Google Pixelbook (2017) with a metal body and ancient junk inside, but it still feels good to use. |
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| ▲ | W3zzy 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| We run dell or HP laptops at work. After 3 years they get replaced.
I usually buy my old work laptop to use it for personal use or to hand off to my family. Tge first one I bought in that way is still working after 14 years. I converted it from Windows to Linux a few years ago and My mother uses it for browsing, banking and email.
Personally I'm using a 7 years old HP. Batteries get upgraded when necessary and first thin I do after buying is adding RAM. I don't get how 5 years is a good lifespan on a Mac? |
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| ▲ | baq 3 days ago | parent [-] | | The point is corporate wouldn’t need to replace the Apple MacBooks after 3 years. I’ve got an M1 air bought what feels forever ago and it’s still as fast as I need it to be. I’ve also been using hp laptops in my previous job and they couldn’t even wake from sleep when needed (but would wake in backpacks to the point IT explicitly forbade putting sleeping laptops in bags. Absurd.) | | |
| ▲ | W3zzy 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | They do so because it's a tax thing. After three years the devices aren't deductible anymore. Benefit of the whole roulette is that all our devices are constantly under extends warranty so most defects are covered. It turned out to cost more to keep these devices for longer that to replace them every three year. | |
| ▲ | W3zzy 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | THE WAKE FROM SLEEP IS TERRIBLY ANNOYING INDEED!! | |
| ▲ | sensanaty 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | IME they do anyways? They won't replace every single device every 3 years, but most companies I've worked for will do refreshes every 3-5 years, Mac or not |
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| ▲ | odo1242 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It’s true if you buy/compare a random MacBook and a random PC. A 5-year lifespan and good performance is basically guaranteed for all Macs, but you have to make sure you don’t have one of the crap Windows PCs (the ones that do stuff like spinning hard disk boot drives, motherboard attached to flimsy frame without reinforcements, 4GB RAM, etc.) Even considering this most people still tend to underestimate the lifespan of Windows PCs lol |
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| ▲ | anon7000 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Well, yeah, and my mom was using my old 2012 MBP until it was a decade too. Main reason to upgrade to an M1 Air was the battery and the performance improvement that comes with a decade of processor and efficiency improvements. And I bet that’ll last another decade. I sold my previous two work MBPs back to family members as well, which they’re still using. And btw a used M1 Air, at almost 5 years old now, is still a great budget choice for anyone. Author should have just put in a longer time frame. |
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| ▲ | cycomanic 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | As I said somewhere above, I am not trying to say that apple hardware is bad and I'm sure they last a long time (although when the battery eventually dies I heard changing that is not straight forward). My point is, that apple is not "crazy good" for making laptops that last 5 or even 10 years, that's just normal in the upper segment. | |
| ▲ | hermanzegerman 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | No it isn't. If the cheap SSD inside has reached it's write limit it's a paperweight | | |
| ▲ | rwyinuse 3 days ago | parent [-] | | For an average user the SSD will never reach its write limit though. But I agree, SSD's should be always user-replaceable. |
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| ▲ | noisy_boy 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Indeed. I'm running 2019 Thinkpad X1 extreme gen 2. Runs a bit hot but still snappy with latest Fedora KDE edition. Just had to do a 100$ battery swap. The all aluminum chassis of MacBooks are lovely indeed; however considering I like the UI flexibility Linux provides and the crazy premium Apple charges for higher specs, it is pretty hard to justify. |
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| ▲ | nullify88 3 days ago | parent [-] | | I have an 2015 X1 3rd Generation Broadwell ticking along running Fedora KDE too. My Enter key is cracked and some of the speakers are failing, battery health at 70% was my daily driver for its initial 5 years now it primarily runs a browser and vscode. Still very capable
No problems with sleep or wake, even Intel Rapid Start hibernation works although is a huge security hole. |
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| ▲ | coliveira 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think the issue of 5 years is not hardware, but software instead. Windows gets somehow bloated and unusable after a few years. Every time I used Windows machines they have to be reinstalled with the OS after some time. With macs I have been using them non-stop since 2010 and never had that problem. |
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| ▲ | conradev 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Also worth noting that Apple actually defines and decides the lifetime of their own computers using software support, whereas Windows and Linux typically support hardware indefinitely (that might be changing with Windows 11). My sister had a 2011 MacBook Air until it stopped getting software updates in 2020. |
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| ▲ | amelius 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > it really sounds like there is some reality distortion field in the mac world It's probably because when everybody including your mom and dad has an Apple device, you really need something like the RDF to stay cool. Anyway, I don't understand the evangelism around Apple. Evangelism is by definition toxic. |
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| ▲ | slater 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Yes, it couldn't possibly be because, y'know, Apple devices are actually good. | | |
| ▲ | amelius 3 days ago | parent [-] | | The parent poster said that other brands are good too. The evangelism will get you nowhere but a place where one company dictates everything. |
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| ▲ | eptcyka 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I use both, have not spent money on buying personal macbooks, have bought many a thinkpad. I have had to repair far more thinkpads than I have had to get macbooks repaired, the batteries last longer on macbooks. I still prefer linux to macOS, but hardware wise, I’d much prefer an m4 to an x86 thinkpad. |
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| ▲ | 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | pjmlp 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Same here, my personal computers are from around 2009, the latest one from 2018, all PC laptops. At work, my Thinkpad from 2021 is still holding on, and has higher specs than entry level MacBooks from 2025. |
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| ▲ | turtlebits 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Nothing matches the build quality, display and general feel of macbooks. IME, (possibly outdated), but thinkpads have some of the worst quality displays I've ever seen. |
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| ▲ | SXX 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Thinkpad x1 do have good 2.8K displays, but almost everywhere around the world they just far more expensive than comparable Macbook Air. |
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| ▲ | matt_s 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think it comes down to quality of materials and manufacturing. It would be interesting if someone knew of failure rate data of laptop manufacturers. I bet Apple's is far lower than others, maybe this is because they control the OS and firmware, etc. I don't care enough to go research but an HN thread isn't likely representative of "normal" laptop users. I'm not an Apple fanboi, I have a lot of linux experience, back in the day built a Tivo like linux PC with TV capture card as a DVR and had to mess with all sorts of X11 settings, etc. Used to build PCs for gaming and mess with settings. The whole It Just Works is true with Apple, everything hardware wise is smooth. The annoyances of Apple software to me don't bubble up to the level of wanting to switch, but articles like above make me think about getting a cheap Mini PC to play around and see if things like Omarchy make the level of messing with settings much lower than it used to be. |
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| ▲ | 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | 42lux 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Try to get replacement parts for a random xy-20003940-fe laptop they are not there or not there anymore after 3 years. |
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| ▲ | uuddlrlrbaba 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Compare their used values at 5 years |
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| ▲ | nvarsj 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I’ve never had 8h of battery life on a Thinkpad. More like 3h. Also my last two T series stopped working completely after ~4 years (dead motherboard / broken usb-c ports / cracking casing). The speakers, screen, touchpad all suck as well, let's be honest. The best thing about a Thinkpad is the keyboard and that it can run Linux. I finally gave in and bought a MBP M3 Max 14" and the thing is a beast. Multiple days of battery life. Beautiful display. Indestructable casing and USB ports. Speaker quality is amazing - I can play music and podcasts in the background on it when traveling - I could never do this on any Thinkpad. The only thing it sucks at is the keyboard and OS X, but I've learned to live with both. Doubt I'll ever go back to a Thinkpad or any non-macbook laptop until a company makes a similar quality one I can run Linux on. |
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| ▲ | fHr 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| yep agree, people have really been brainwashed into thinking this isn't normal wtf |
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| ▲ | codeflo 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > 8-10h battery life If you think that's even close to good, then it's you who lives in a reality distortion field. But so are all of the PC laptop manufacturers, reviewers and buyers. I don't get it. I desperately want to move to a Linux laptop (I run it on every desktop PC I own, and I hate that I have to deal with a locked-down system). I've tried more laptops than is probably financially healthy for me. There's no price point that buys you even close to what an entry-level Macbook Air offers, not only in terms of battery life, but also weight, screen quality and keyboard. |
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| ▲ | cycomanic 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > > 8-10h battery life
>
> If you think that's even close to good, then it's you who lives in a reality distortion field. But so are all of the PC laptop manufacturers, reviewers and buyers. I don't get it.
> That's a laptop from 2016, IIRC at the time that was about the same you got out of a top of the line macbook. But I'm pretty certain that 2016 macbook would not have that battery life now, while I could easily swap out the battery and am back to 10h battery life. | |
| ▲ | sensanaty 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | My work-provided M1 Pro (which I got brand new out of the box) will last all day if idle, but if I'm doing literally anything like even light browsing, the battery life is around 8-10h. More like 5 when I'm running my full local dev setup. | |
| ▲ | noisy_boy 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > I hate that I have to deal with a locked-down system But you don't hate a soldered down unupgradable system. |
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