| ▲ | FrustratedMonky 4 days ago |
| Sabine's early video's seemed pretty sincere, and had a lot of valid points. But later, I think the pressure of creating constant content, and moving into non-expert areas, has gotten just as pop-sci as anybody else. Still think she is on another level from Eric who will throw out any crazy idea he can if someone will listen. |
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| ▲ | thomassmith65 4 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| For anyone who doesn't already know, the term for the phenomenon is 'audience capture' https://www.gurwinder.blog/p/the-perils-of-audience-capture |
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| ▲ | depr 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think "just as pop-sci" is a bit generous. https://x.com/C_Kavanagh/status/1956336194352230570 explains it better than I can. |
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| ▲ | FrustratedMonky 4 days ago | parent [-] | | I think that list applies more to Eric. He is definitely in the 'conspiracy of nefarious forces are aligned against me' camp. Sabine, I think she was just referring to how institutions can become calcified around certain ideas. The old concept that 'new' ideas need to wait for the founders of old ideas to die off. (can't remember exact quote). | | |
| ▲ | analog31 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | >>> The old concept that 'new' ideas need to wait for the founders of old ideas to die off. (can't remember exact quote). I think Paul Feyerabend debunked that idea. Disclosure: Old physicist. | |
| ▲ | tux3 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Max Planck is the source of the famous quote. "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it" | |
| ▲ | 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | NitpickLawyer 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Science progresses one funeral at a time |
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| ▲ | jordanpg 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| She has gone way beyond this. She is actively undermining the entire academic scientific enterprise, even as she makes money popularizing it. It's unclear why she does this. She portrays herself as speaking truth to power, but -- much like certain actors in US public life these days -- is simply doing the easy work of tearing things down, without doing the hard work of building things. |
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| ▲ | deepfriedchokes 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I think it’s Elite Overproduction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_overproduction Being a contrarian is often an intellectually dishonest way to seek power. Goes all the way back to the serpent in Adam and Eve. | |
| ▲ | amanaplanacanal 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Pointing out that something is bullshit is valuable in science, even if you don't have a better theory. | | |
| ▲ | cycomanic 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Sure, but just going around and calling everything bullshit without any expertise is not valuable is just grifting. |
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| ▲ | throwawaymaths 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | the scientific enterprise has undermined itself already. Look at how we lost decades of research in alzheimer's as a good example. This problem is WAY worse than even sabines says. If a scientist publishes something sketchy, even sometimes just a little bit, they might wind up sinking years of research of other people who are honest truthseeking researchers just chasing the sketchy results. These good people then burn out or flip to the dark side, only leaving rotten people. It's like a fucking market of lemons, except if becoming lemons were viral. | | |
| ▲ | FrustratedMonky 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Sketchy. It really is only apparent in hindsight after investigation. When something turns out to be a valid idea, guess that wasn't sketchy. When something turns out to be wild goose chase, guess that was sketchy, why did we do that? You don't know the winning paths until you take them. But complaining that some wrong paths were taken, isn't the solution. Because who can pick winners ahead of time? | | |
| ▲ | throwawaymaths 4 days ago | parent [-] | | No. There are some routes that are obviously pointless in foresight, and funding them is just giving money to someone's pet project, for example: Everything Julius Rebek does. Then, there are people who are defrauding by making claims that are for SURE easy to know are sketchy. I promise you every active researcher (grad student, postdoc) can off the top of their head tell you AT LEAST three results that they know are on shaky ground. "There are no right answers" is perfectly valid. Saying "there are no wrong answers" is a recipe for disaster, and cronyism. To put it bluntly: Should the DOE fund perpetual motion research? Of course not. You 100% should block dumb paths of research. We don't do that enough. | | |
| ▲ | FrustratedMonky 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Yeah, but was it really obvious we shouldn't pursue String Theory? It seemed promising in the beginning. Even for Alzheimer’s, it isn't as slam dunk obvious as a perpetual motion machine. Recent discussion on pro/con of Alzheimer’s controversy.
https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/in-defense-of-the-amyloid-h... I'm just super wary of the 'right's tendency to throw the baby out with bath water, like JFK JR, and set the US back a few decades. Just because they don't understand science, so it must all be bad. | | |
| ▲ | throwawaymaths 3 days ago | parent [-] | | yes of course JFK jr is brainwormed to hell but he's not setting back the US decades. many things he tears down will be rebuildable and some things he puts in are fine, actually. what is far far more dangerous is the rot in the science infrastructure. because that will take decades to unwind (if we even do), and it's not an obvious problem like the way anything in politics is. people implicitly trust science, which is the problem. people implicitly distrust at least the politics on the other side of the aisle so there's some adversarial challenging going on and the opportunity for growth and integration. science is devoid of that right now. the FDA is all fucked up anyways and if you doubt that, look up propublicas expose on serious drug safety lapses there. > Alzheimer’s, it isn't as slam dunk obvious as a perpetual motion machine it wasn't perpetual motion level fraud, but it was bad. you weren't there. everyone doing work in the salt mines was like why the fuck arent my experiments working but nobody really stood up to say this is bullshit, because that would be the end of your career if you were a junior researcher... much easier to half ass a result, get the publication, and move on with your life. > String Theory, It seemed promising in the beginning maybe it shouldn't have been. there is a heuristic for what actually makes discoveries in science. and the string theory approach is not it. people were sounding the alarm at the time, like, among others some guy named richard feynman. but nobody was listening to them evidentally. | | |
| ▲ | FrustratedMonky 3 days ago | parent [-] | | For JFK, and current regime, anti-science, Nasa cuts, etc... I think what you are espousing is the theory that sometimes you need to burn it down in order to rebuild. I really hope you are right. That is only silver lining to current times, is that maybe sometimes the current calcified structures need to be hit hard in order to re-form. I'm hoping it is that, as opposed to actually just burned down so far it never builds back. Not to go off topic, it could be like Vorlon and Shadow war in Babylon 5. You need the side of order that can become stuck, and the side of chaos that can't really build anything. And they fight back and forth. Neither is really good/bad. For research, FDA. I don't have an answer. I still think current system of scientific method, peer reviews, publishing openly to public, providing the raw data. All that, while it can have problems, I can't think of another way. Of course, humans are fallible, and for any system to work, people need to stand up to fraud and bad ideas. But that comes down to individuals doing the right thing. |
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| ▲ | kelipso 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | As oppose to industry that blows hundreds of billions of dollars on hype bubbles every couple of years. | | |
| ▲ | tombert 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I just bought a nearly-new used Herman Miller Aeron chair. It cost me $400, but if I had bought it new from their website it would have cost me ~$1600-1800. It's a nice chair, but what I think what happens is that a company will buy a new nice chair for every employee, then do massive downsize and/or go bankrupt, and they liquidate these chairs for pennies on the dollar, oversaturating the market and making the chairs fairly cheap on the used market. It's no individual person's money, so they don't really care if they're taking a huge loss, and they might be able to write off a loss on taxes. But it makes me think that if it's routinely easy to buy an $1800 chair for $400 because this is so common, maybe corporations aren't these hyper-optimized controllers of money. | |
| ▲ | throwawaymaths 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yeah, that's a problem too. Keynes: By a continuing process of inflation, Governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security, but at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth. Those to whom the system brings windfalls, beyond their deserts and even beyond their expectations or desires, become "profiteers," who are the object of the hatred of the bourgeoisie, whom the inflationism has impoverished, not less than of the proletariat. As the inflation proceeds and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery. |
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| ▲ | jordanpg 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Sure, academia is the worst system except for all the other ones. Academia is what she is criticizing, btw, not the "scientific enterprise," even if she doesn't say it all the time. You know what else she doesn't say? What we should do instead. Here's what she thinks we should do instead: privatize academic research. Can you think of any problems with that? |
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| ▲ | calf 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | She has done nothing of the sort and this kind of narrative is exactly the self-victimization that science-academic industry tells itself to insulate its own thinking. Sabine does not have that much power or influence. |
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| ▲ | indy 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Sadly this is a common path for many people on Youtube. Once they reach a certain level of popularity the original topic of their channel becomes a vehicle for "content creation" which they try to maximize for "engagement". The quality of the original content always nosedives. |
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| ▲ | tombert 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Something I've noticed is people who are extremely talented in one field will sometimes think they're extremely talented in every field. I know a lot of engineers like that (and I'm certainly guilty of that kind of thinking sometimes though the jury is still out on if I'm extremely talented). I have no doubt at all that she understands her niche of physics better than most other humans on the planet, but that doesn't really translate to most other fields. I stopped watching her after I saw her video on transgender stuff and then another video basically acting like we can't trust any kind of academic science. I also have no idea why the hell she thinks it's a good idea to try and simp for Eric Weinstein who, as far as I can tell, hasn't made any significant contribution to physics and primarily exists to add an air of credibility to right-wing talking point. I will admit that I don't know enough about physics to talk shit about his weird unified field theory attempt, but I do know actual physicists who said it was pretty silly. Again, I am sure that Eric Weinstein is good at a specific niche of physics, he does have a real PhD from a good school, but he's using that status to try and branch out into stuff he has no fucking clue about. |
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| ▲ | spacechild1 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > Something I've noticed is people who are extremely talented in one field will sometimes think they're extremely talented in every field. I know a lot of engineers like that There's a term for that: Engineer's Disease. | |
| ▲ | boxed 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Something I've noticed is people who are extremely talented in one field will sometimes think they're extremely talented in every field. I'm pretty sure Sabine has made this exact statement too. | | |
| ▲ | tombert 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Probably, kind of funny that the irony is completely lost on her. I am not in a PhD program anymore and I didn't finish but I was enrolled in one from a good school for a few years. It was for formal methods in computer science, and specifically with regards to functional programming and temporal logic. I probably understand that niche better than most people and I probably could give reasonable educated opinions on it, but that doesn't mean I would be qualified for having strong opinions on biology or physics, or even other fields of computer science really (e.g. data science), even if I had finished my PhD. A PhD basically means that you were willing and able to work really really hard for a certain amount of time on a very specific subject. Being smart helps but I don't think that's sufficient; I think most people could get a PhD if they were willing to do the work for it. Importantly though, PhDs are extremely focused; in a strange way saying that you have a PhD in physics sort of makes you less qualified to talk about biology. | | |
| ▲ | nis0s 4 days ago | parent [-] | | > PhDs are extremely focused; in a strange way saying that you have a PhD in physics sort of makes you less qualified to talk about biology. It depends, many fields intersect, and there are interdisciplinary approaches to problem-solving. The generalist approach is to be T-shaped, but you’re right that it’s important to know your limits. The T might be shallow on some ends, but deeper on others, so you may even have a prong, trident, or comb. Truly, it depends. | | |
| ▲ | tombert 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Sure, I don't disagree with that. If you have a PhD in theoretical physics, you're probably in a good enough position to talk about different types of calculus, and maybe some other forms of physics depending on if there's overlap. But I think a lot of people will see "Dr." in front of the name and assume that these people are like the professor from Gilligan's Island and understand everything about everything. It's entirely possible that a PhD theoretical physicist does know a lot about biology (maybe they got a job in a biophysics or something) but I'm saying it's definitely not implied, and it might even suggest that they don't have expertise in that field. |
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| ▲ | cycomanic 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Exactly she used to say this all the time and now she's weighing in on topics ranging from EVs to nuclear power to 5G causing cancer (yes she did a show on that, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOvAZPHDogs and she was peddling to the "sceptic" crowd by saying that "she doesn't have any reason to believe that it's is unsafe, but ..." and pointing to doctors saying smoking was save in the 50s). | | |
| ▲ | tombert 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Yeah, I remember the 5G one and it kind of upset me. Obviously people can have opinions on anything, and of course you can't be an expert on everything, but I feel like what Sabine does goes beyond "having an opinion"; she seems to have pivoted into fear-mongering about academia. I don't love academia either, and I have my criticisms of how it is run in the US, but I think a lot of my complaints can largely be explained by incompetence at the administrative level, not a grand conspiracy to control narratives or suppress questions or anything like that. Granted, the research I've worked on has been pretty apolitical [1], mostly mathy computer science stuff, so maybe I was never at a risk of my research being suppressed, but I certainly don't think that Eric Weinstein is being censored by no one taking his attempt at Unified Field Theory seriously. [1] Yes I know everything can be political. You don't need to explain this to me. |
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| ▲ | kevin_thibedeau 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| You must be one of the aliens trying to deceive humanity. |