I wonder if it used to be that people largely weren’t on the same page, and didn’t know it. It’s not like people consult dictionaries to learn what slang means, or even usually ask somebody, and the definitions are related enough that responses usually don’t distinguish them. I’ve noticed it’s not uncommon online that a post’s likes are split between opposing interpretations, like agreeing with its politics vs seeing it as satire of politics one disagrees with.

▲

johnfn 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

The article specifically addresses this with the fascinating quote from Dave Berry where he reports that the definition of the word unknowingly changed in his head over the last few decades:

> “I always thought jerk meant asshole. At least I thought I always thought that, although the quotes you cite seem to suggest otherwise. So to answer your question: I have no idea. You may be right!”

▲

DonHopkins 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

The important difference between "jerk" and "asshole" is that "asshole" goes through glass. If you're driving around, then somebody cuts you off, and you mouth "jerk" at them through the windshield, they will smile at you and and wave. While "asshole" will be totally and universally unambiguously understood.

	▲	aspenmayer 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		> "asshole" goes through glass This is a great hard and fast rule of thumb for photocopiers as well!

▲

smelendez 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think the two concepts just aren’t that far apart in American English, and words can drift back and forth. Think about insulting the driver in the next car — it’s not always clear if you’re talking about their intelligence or lack of empathy and someone listening might get the opposite impression.

Clown can mean jerk in either sense. “Who’s this idiot?” means something closer to asshole. In old movies you’ll hear someone called “a selfish fool” or “inconsiderate fool,” where fool means something closer to asshole than fool as we usually use it.

Maybe the underlying issue is that it’s hard to tell someone acting obnoxiously because they don’t know better from someone deliberately indifferent or malicious, and the consequences are often the same.

▲

5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[deleted]

▲

permo-w 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

the British slang version of the word "cheers" is a very good example of this. I can tell you for absolute certain that the most people use the word "cheers" to mean "thanks", but if you go online and look up the definition, you will be told it also means goodbye, which it really doesn't, but I think this arises from the fact that it's a bit more relaxed form of thanks, so people frequently say it as thank you at the end of an interaction where directly thanking the person might sound a bit awkward or overly formal. people hearing the word in that case may understandably assume it means goodbye. as you say, "jerk" is probably similar, except taken far enough that the original meaning is lost. there are many many occasions where using an insult to mean "idiot" could extremely easily be misinterpreted to mean "asshole"

▲

JdeBP 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

People who tell you that it also means "goodbye" are correct. It is an alternate form of "cheerio". It's not in popular use now, but it's recorded with this sense in mid-20th-century dictionaries. Indeed, one 21st century Partridge's records "cheers" meaning "goodbye" (1960s) as pre-dating "cheers" meaning "thank you" (1970s).

▲

heresie-dabord 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cheer

From Norman French, "face, merry faces, festivity"; from Late Latin, "head".

The sense of smiling, merry expression, good cheer, cheerful, is well attested in literature. "Cheers" is a versatile modern expression. I have heard it as "thanks", "drink well" (of course), and yes even "see you later".

▲

permo-w 5 days ago | parent [-]

>and yes even "see you later".

this being my point. how do you know that what you were hearing wasn't someone saying thanks as they were leaving?

▲

xanderlewis 5 days ago | parent [-]

I think you’re right. You do (or, at least, when I imagine it in my head, I do) hear it frequently used when saying goodbye, but I don’t think it would be used to say goodbye.

If someone said ‘cheers’ to me when parting, I’d interpret it the same way as if they’d said ‘thanks’ — which could be slightly strange, depending on the situation.

	▲	heresie-dabord 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cheerio Maybe it is a conflation of cheers (smiles, thanks) and cheerio (old-fashioned familiar good-bye).

▲

zahlman 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>but if you go online and look up the definition, you will be told it also means goodbye, which it really doesn't, but I think this arises from the fact that it's a bit more relaxed form of thanks, so people frequently say it as thank you at the end of an interaction where directly thanking the person might sound a bit awkward or overly formal.

Possibly also because of the phonetic similarity with "ciao"?

▲

blahedo 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Or "tschüß". I have a friend who speaks German and frequently says goodbye with "tschüß", and one time I heard it, thought he said "cheers" (as I often do), and then realise what he'd said—and that the two sound surprisingly similar.

	▲	aspenmayer 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		I used the handy audio pronunciation feature on my dictionary, and I am not a German speaker, but I can definitely see how that eggcorn might have occurred. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggcorn > An eggcorn is the alteration of a word or phrase through the mishearing or reinterpretation of one or more of its elements, creating a new phrase which is plausible when used in the same context. Thus, an eggcorn is an unexpectedly fitting or creative malapropism. Eggcorns often arise as people attempt to make sense of a stock phrase that uses a term unfamiliar to them, as for example replacing "Alzheimer's disease" with "old-timers' disease", or William Shakespeare's "to the manner born" with "to the manor born". The autological word "eggcorn" is itself an eggcorn, derived from acorn.

▲

bigDinosaur 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I find it a big stretch to consider 'ciao' phonetically similar to 'cheers', at least in terms of confusing them which I doubt any English speaker would.

▲

Brian_K_White 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I would have thought it means "I wish you well" which applies in both of those though more in the "goodbye" case.

	▲	permo-w 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		this is an interesting point. perhaps then the original meaning covered goodbye and it's drifted towards mostly meaning thank you, but then there's some drift back towards goodbye? god but language is complicated though. undoubtedly I'm wrong and it's far more complex

▲

wink 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As an ESL, both jerk and cheers are 100% words I only learned by interacting with people of unknown or questionable language skills online in the last 20 years, so yeah, make of that what you will. Probably being part of the problem :) (Usually try to look them up, of course, but how helpful is a dictionary for slang, anyway)

▲

Chris2048 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ok, but you can also use "thanks" as a goodbye. Consider ending a phone call, maybe "thanks" is for whatever they called about, but it's effectively "goodbye" before hanging up.

	▲	permo-w 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		you can use it in place of goodbye, but you would be using it with different meaning. this is illustrated by the fact that there are certain situations in which you would never end an interaction with "thanks", but you might "goodbye". for example ending a call with a lover

▲

renewiltord 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Fucking hell, there's no way. The goodbye notion sounded outlandish to me, but could it be the same as OP?

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/17tzcl5/comment/k915... says

> I certainly use it as a goodbye - typically after meeting someone in the street and stopping to chat, but also generally. Also as an informal signoff for email and saying goodbye over telephone.

> 64M British, brought up in London.

Now, I'm having second thoughts. Would I say it to a baker after buying a pastry? Yes. If I ran into a friend while out on a trip would I say it? No, I don't think so, but do I? Maybe as in "good seeing you"? How confusing.

▲

IAmBroom 5 days ago | parent [-]

I've absolutely heard it used that way, in 1990s West Midlands England.

Person seeing me walk out the door: "Cheers! See you tomorrow!".

	▲	permo-w 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		>Person seeing me walk out the door: "Cheers! See you tomorrow!". you're suggesting a family member might say this as you were leaving?

▲

mtillman 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Reminds me of the word nice. https://www.dictionary.com/e/nice-guys/

	▲	IAmBroom 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		In Chaucerian times (1390s), it meant "foolish or naive". "I nam not nyce." = "Don't take me for a simpleton."

▲

naniwaduni 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

People still aren't on the same page and don't know it.

	▲	doormatt 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		Hell, most people are in a different book.

▲

riffic 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

language can only approximate meaning. there's an element of probability whether two parties are on the same page or even in the same volume.