Motorcycle fatality and injury statistics don't control for a rider's skills, experience, or attitude. Add to that the fact that motorcycles tend to attract a large number of young thrill seekers on crotch rockets and counter-culture types on choppers--neither of which put much, if any, level of effort into safety--and you get studies and statistics saying that motorcycles are basically two-wheeled insta-death machines.

Yes, a motorcycle rider will never be as protected as a person in a car surrounded by a steel frame and airbags. That should go without saying. But it would be nice if we can acknowledge that people who actually make an effort to wear their gear and maintain situational awareness generally aren't well represented in the statistics.

> our roads almost worldwide are cursed with ever-present cars which do not cars about anything else

Kind of feel like you're over-generalizing here. Where I live, there is almost more motorbikes than cars a lot of the time, which considering the rush hour traffic, kind of makes sense as most people don't wanna get stuck in those queues. Of course, there are accidents and near-misses (almost by definition, since those on motorbikes tend to go between car lanes), but it's not like there is a 99% chance of you dying every time you use a motorbike.

I think it depends a lot on how used to motorbikes the car drivers are. Since I live in a place where there is a bunch of them always (and cyclists!), I feel like most of us pay attention to where they could show up. Compare that to countries where motorbiking isn't as popular, I could understand how it's more risky to go with the motorbike as the car-ists aren't as used to them appearing wherever.

There was literally 1/5th as many people on earth in 1900 as there were today. Of course the roads were empty. Even if you compare to 75yr ago there's been a doubling of population in many countries.

"Always stay in the middle of the lane"

Usually the middle is more slick from oil drips and contains more debris. That's why most people ride in one of the tire tracks from the cars.

I was coming home from work on my bike very late a few years ago, and I was on the side of the lane where your car tire would be -- not in the center. It was a good thing, too, because there was a full size ladder in the road, lined up exactly in the direction of traffic. Cars could safely drive 'over' it. I missed it by maybe a foot. If I were in middle of the lane, I would have taken a serious spill.

> Always stay in the middle of the lane

This is wrong. Use the whole lane to be in the best spot to see and be seen. Use lateral movement to increase your visibility in driver mirrors.

The middle of the lane is where cars drip years of oil and coolant.

I'll chime in here and note that, until very recently, there wasn't an airbag system that really appealed enough to ME.

The affordable ones, now long in the tooth, required a tether. The nicer ones were built into vests that weighted more, were hotter, and sometimes required a subscription, meaning a billing error could result in a nonfunctional safety device. Um, no.

AlpineStars released one that was ALMOST right a year or two ago called the Techair 5. It was (is) accelerometer driven, so no tether, and while it has an app it doesn't require a subscription. However, it IS heavy, and it IS hot, and it DOES require that you mail it in to be serviced after a deployment, so that was still a no-go for me.

However, last year AStars released the updated TechAir 5 Plasma, which has all the goodness of the original TechAir 5 while also being materially lighter and cooler -- plus, the canister can be replaced by the end user. It's spendy ($800 or so), but I bought one immediately. I wear it more or less every time I get on the bike. I live in the American South, so when I say I'm not any hotter wearing it than I would be without it, you know it's vented well.

(In fact, I wore it on a 4-day road trip between where I used to live (Houston) and where I live now (Durham) 2 weeks ago. Was it a hot trip? Absolutely; I was riding a motorcycle in TX, LA, MS, TN, and NC in the summer. Did the airbag make me less comfortable? No.)

I tell people worried about motorcycles (I've had motorcycles around more or less since I was 12) — if safety is the most important thing for you, skip motorcycles (and bicycling, etc.).

I'm surprised how often people project their own fears on me with comments like, "Aren't you afraid you'll get killed?" As though that never occurred to me, ha ha.

Obviously I choose to do some things in life that are not the safest — but I do them because they make life more worth living. (Sound like a bumper sticker? Hopefully you get the point though.)

Likely there are things others do that add a degree of risk to their life but they feel are worth it.

> Now I'm a petrolhead at heart so I still enjoy scenic roads but with a car. It's much safer.

I've tried it in a car, but it's not the same. For me, it's not even 1/10th of the experience of being on a bike. It's like all the soul has been sucked out of it. I might as well be in a minivan on the freeway for all the joy it gives me.

I'm not riding at the moment due to an unrelated (incomplete) spinal cord injury and some long term issues relating to that, and so i've been trying it in a car, and I even bought a "fun" car thinking it would help. But it just feels so...meh that i've largely just given it up full stop and am going to just sell the car.

I'd been riding since I was five years old, I dont think anything will ever touch it for me honestly. It was my zen place, the place I was truely happiest and at peace. It's been the biggest loss for me since my injury.

There is still a chance I could one day return to riding, so i've kept the bike (a 2012 BMW F800GS) out of sheer hope, but I must admit that it's likely by the time I can physically, I may no longer be mentally capable of the return.

You're probably on the wrong side of history. As society gets wealthier fancy toys like motorcycles proliferate and more people have a stake in being able to use them.

I think the way the flood of Side by Sides onto the market gave enough of the public an interest in off road motoring to overwhelm the "hikers only" advocates decades old tactic of variously allying with different groups to get the others kicked out is highly illustrative here.

When motorcycles are commonly electric and require basically no maintenance and can simply be turned on in the spring year after year the barrier to entry is gonna drop even further and you're really gonna be up shit creek.

What are you talking about? My bike is quieter than most cars.

How about not generalising?