I used to date a woman in Germany who was trying to shake her farm roots for corporate aspirations. I didn't understand German that well but apparently other Germans could tell her accent. No different than someone from Appalachia being assumed to be uneducated, and how we debate the validity of poor English versus "dialect". It seemed like an unnecessary distraction to her life.

Eventually I met the father, and he was big into the farm life. running a small but industrial farm. I still didn't understand, he mentioned a love of feeding people, why is he doing this and why is he putting his family through this, my girlfriend was translating the things he said but I didn't get it, so I assumed language barrier. They did seem to be respected in the town though by all the shopkeepers. But given the options, they were quite liquid and wealthy, it seemed contrived.

Then I met the grandfather, now, I liked that guy. The grandfather had a diversified portfolio, golf ranges, restaurants, farms, different siblings and children running them all. There was no "I just love feeding people" bullshit, just revenue streams and property. The farmer son just got the short straw and had to adopt that persona.

Yeah, that rings true. I assumed when asking my question that this was something to do with culture, identity, and social status within a particular community. In this case the culture (rural America) is alien to me. But I can understand the idea of making economically "irrational" choices for reasons to do with pride or culture or identity, though in the world I grew up in it's more things like become a classical musician, environmental scientist, or spend 6 years doing a humanities PhD. On the other hand, none of those things involve the allocation of $5M of capital, so there does seem to be something different about this kind of life choice.

There's opportunities for the right person out there, I've seen it a few times - young man (or woman) who wants to run a farm or rural business or whatnot, either marries into the family or becomes "basically adopted" and inherits the business or farm.

You have tons of businesses that are viable (produce enough money to support a family) as long as you never load it with debt; because they do NOT produce enough to support a family and the debt load that would come from buying it.

So they're unsaleable.

I know someone in a similar position. Had a spirit more meant for tech, pursued it, but has to keep thinking about what to do about the family farm business. I think it's the same for any kind of family business, there's a sense of failure if you're the generation to close it down.

> I don't know how to exactly describe it, but I'd suggest it has to do with more autonomy in non-farming businesses, where you are always trying to balance between trying to make the business work and not taking advantage of people. Or if you end up taking advantage of people...

What about all the non-organic farming, use of pesticides/antibiotics/etc., poor treatment of animals (sometimes), water waste in some cases (like almonds in CA), being beholden to & inevitably supporting the wonderful companies that are John Deere and Monsanto, having to use proprietary seeds and IP for such a basic human need, etc.? Some of our largest problems on the planet trace back to modern industrial farming.

To be clear, I love and respect farmers a ton, my comment isn't about them at all. They're amazing and hardworking and anybody in the the business would be dealing with the same problems. I'm just talking about the purity of the business itself that you're talking about. The idea that the job is somehow so morally pure compared to all the other jobs baffles me. Your average local job (waiter, cashier, postal delivery worker, janitor, etc.) would seem to have a much more direct positive and impact on people's happiness and much less of an opportunity to take advantage of other beings, as you put it.

I should clarify that I mean directly financially profitable. Obviously growing good food even if you lose money at it means people including your family and friends get to eat good food which has other benefits than cash.

its why farmers are always such jolly folk

I think "insular rural folk" are often literate enough to see highfalutin dick-bags like yourself coming and don't want to be associated with that level of disdainful pretense.

I work in project management for a massive multi-national, about as "businessy business" as you can get, and my moon-shining, hog-raising cousins give me shit for being a sellout (we grew up showing and milking cows together) but we all still can sense a vibe about "certain types from the big city" that's more about respect and shared culture that any sort of financial, social, political, or other illiteracy/incompetence.

> I probably wouldn't buy them on margin tho.

Yeah, this is the pertinent detail. The whole point is putting down only a fraction of the amount.

When you calculate the rate of return on a financed property, the rate of return is versus the capital you put down, not the value of what you financed. Plus accruing equity in the property is part of the return.

If you put down $1.25 million and you get a $5 million property paid off after 20 years, that's double the rate of return on your bonds.

After The inevitable collapse good luck eating worthless T-bills! Ehehe

Hah fair. Year to year is crazy but long term it smooths out.

You've got it backwards. Hard assets like land, buildings (aka. your house), machinery (a tractor or your car) are all much easier to finance than businesses. A simple Google search gives a wealth of resources for someone looking to finance (aka. mortgage) land and/or property for a farm.

https://www.farmcreditil.com/Products/farm-loans

There's even government grants and loans to help:

https://www.fsa.usda.gov/resources/farm-loan-programs/farm-o...

Edit - we're on HN. If you'd ever tried to get a business loan you'd know it's near impossible for a new business without 100% collateral, which is why the entire venture capital business, and HN, even exists...

> Land can’t be financed

Doesn't seem accurate. See:

https://agamerica.com/land-loans/real-estate-loans/

https://www.farmcrediteast.com/en/FINANCING/Land-Loans

This is factually inaccurate. The land is the collateral. If you don’t service the debt, they take back the land. 75-85% loan to value, 2-4% interest over treasury rates. Underwriting guidelines for the loan will differ if this is for speculation, development into housing, or agriculture.