| ▲ | throw0101d 2 days ago |
| > […] but there can also be a significant benefit from allowing the ICE to remain in the RPM "sweet spot" rather than moving around a larger range. Which is why I'm surprised electric cars with range extenders aren't a bigger thing: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_extender Have the powertrain be all-electric, and have a battery pack, but for those with range anxiety have a small generator as an option that would go in the frunk (front truck). A (proverbial) small Honda EU2200i would be less maintenance than a traditional engine. |
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| ▲ | sgarland 2 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| The EU2200i can sustain 15 amps. That charges most EVs at something like a few miles of range per hour. The biggest one that’s small enough for a frunk is the 3200i, which still only sustains 21.7 amps - plus, that’s from an L5-30R socket, so you’d need an adapter for the EV, and a custom chip to limit charging current below that, since the ones I’ve seen for that socket assume they can pull 24 amps. Re: maintenance, small engines typically are pretty needy. That one wants an oil change, spark plug gap adjustment, and spark arrestor cleaning every 100 hours of use. The latter two are only usage-based, but the oil is time-based as well (6 months) since it oxidizes, and suffers from fuel dilution. Then there’s the fuel: god help you if you put ethanol gas into a small engine and let it sit for any period of time. It’s often difficult to find E0 fuel, and while there are external fuel tanks for generators that can hold quite a bit, they also tend to vent vapor in the heat (as does any tank, including a car’s), which is unpleasant when it’s in your frunk. Finally, engines of all kinds really don’t like being left sitting for months on end unless prepared to do so. Generally you want to run them monthly, getting them up to operating temperature, putting a load on them for a bit to fully exercise all components. I say all this because I have an EU2200i and dearly love it, but am also painfully aware of its limitations and needs. I got it when I lived in Texas because the power outages were getting to be absurd, and my house wasn’t plumbed for natural gas, so a whole-house was out of the question. The 2200i was plenty to power two fridges, a deep freezer, TV, fans, and my server rack. I got really good at quickly running extension cords (which is a whole other discussion on ensuring proper amperage ratings and calculating voltage drop, something most people ignore). |
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| ▲ | throw0101d 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > The EU2200i can sustain 15 amps. proverbial | | |
| ▲ | sgarland a day ago | parent [-] | | I’ve ran mine at nearly that for hours without any issue. Honda generators do what they say they’ll do. |
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| ▲ | sokoloff 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| For a Honda 2.2kW to aid with range anxiety, you'd have to split range anxiety into two categories and I think it only addresses the second/lesser of the two. Assume the car gets 4 miles per kWh delivered and the charging cycle is 90% efficient (measured from generator output). The 2.2kW generator can add 8 miles/hour of generator runtime (2.2 kW * 0.9 * 4 miles/kWh). For range anxiety of the form "we're driving to a destination pretty far away and I'm not sure we can get there", that's not very helpful. For range anxiety of "I'm driving to a destination that's over half my range and then going to spend a full day [or overnight] there, but I'm not sure there will be working chargers available there", charging 8 mph times 8-10 hours is very helpful. Worrying about being stuck in the boondocks without a charger is addressed by an 8 mph on-board charger, but I think that's the less common form of range anxiety. The Chevy Volt range extender was 75kW; the i3's was 26.6kW. 2.2kW is literally an order of magnitude too small to replace those. |
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| ▲ | sgarland 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Posted something very similar above. It’s worse than 2200 watts: that’s the allowable overload draw, not sustained. After about 5 minutes, it warns you to reduce power to <= 1800 watts. Also, something I didn’t mention in my post; at full power they’ll suck their tank dry in a little over 3 hours. You’ll get about 20 miles of range (using your assumptions above) from one. Tbf you can also parallel two of them, or buy a slightly larger model (EU3200i), but either way, it’s still not going to be anything other than an emergency backup where you have a lot of time to kill. |
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| ▲ | eftpotrm 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| BMW tried that with the i3, it wasn't particularly popular. An engine, fuel system and a generator are all relatively complex additions compared to just putting the same cost and vehicle space into more batteries, and the public charging networks are definitely up to the task by now (having been EV-only for almost 5 years now). |
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| ▲ | thmsths 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I've ridden in one and this was basically a case of "you get the worst of both worlds". The engine was small and running at a constant RPM, leading to an annoying noise in the cabin. The range extension was not particularly huge. Worse, when we did eventually run out of battery on one trip, the range extender was unable to recharge the battery after refueling the car, forcing us to scramble to find an available charging station with the car on the tow truck... | | |
| ▲ | Tagbert a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes, the Volt was a better balanced version of that. It had a longer EV range and the range extender was larger. It was much less likely to need the range extender and when it did, the larger (1.4l) engine was no more noisy than any gas engine. | |
| ▲ | thijson 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I've been driving one for a while. On the trips I've driven, even on the highway, the engine was able to keep up with the energy draw. I think it's around 60HP. If I'm on a long trip, I'll start the engine once I reach 75% of my battery capacity. That gives a significant buffer for the engine. It's a serial hybrid. | |
| ▲ | supportengineer 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | >> the range extender was unable to recharge the battery Could you expand on this? What was the actual problem? For example, did the range extender start and run? Did it put any energy into the battery at all? | | |
| ▲ | thmsths a day ago | parent | next [-] | | We ran out of battery and fuel (I was on the backseat so I don't remember the exact sequence, I just remember the car basically losing power without much warning on the autobahn). The car was towed to a gas station were we proceeded to refill the tank, but the range extender would not start and the car computer was adamant we had to recharge. Which led to a quest to find a public charger in the middle of the night, after 2 failed attempts, we gave up and asked to be towed to our destination instead since it was close enough. | |
| ▲ | fragmede 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | The original BMW i3 had/has a lockout that prevented the range extender from charging the battery until it reached 6% in order to meet California's ZEV BEVx regulation. | | |
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| ▲ | throw0101d a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | > An engine, fuel system and a generator are all relatively complex additions […] And yet that's what an ICE car is. So a range extender (RX) should be no worse than ICE: in fact a little less complex because you don't have a gear train and transmission. |
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| ▲ | cjrp 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The newer London black cabs do that > The LEVC TX is powered by a full-electric hybrid drivetrain. It drives in full-electric mode all the time, but is recharged by an 81-horsepower (60 kW; 82 PS) Volvo-sourced 1.5-litre turbocharged three-cylinder petrol engine. |
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| ▲ | darkwater 2 days ago | parent [-] | | This does not make any sense. It's a cab, it's going to stay 100% of the time in a city or really near, moving around. If it ignites a petrol engine to recharge the battery, what's the point? Surely a cab driver can pause 20 minutes every 4 hours to go to the restroom and fast charge their EV, no? |
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| ▲ | theshrike79 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Diesel REX vans would be a MASSIVE hit if a company would just decide to start making them. The #1 reason for (european) companies not buying full EV vans is range, they need to drive a LOT during the day. REX would solve that with minimal emissions. And depending on the battery size, they could drive on full EV in city centres and only allow the REX to charge the battery during longer drives. The BMW i3 REX is a fantastic car, if you can find one, buy it. |
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| ▲ | thijson 2 days ago | parent [-] | | They are the cheapest hybrid out there currently, at least here in the USA. I think the average American prefers a larger vehicle. I think a Diesel indirect injection REX would be awesome. It could burn vegetable oil, which is more viscous, but indirect injection doesn't need to atomize the fuel as much. |
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| ▲ | recursive 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Range anxiety seems to go away after your first week of EV driving. |
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| ▲ | sokoloff 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I'd say more that it evolves rather than goes away. We've had our BEV for over a decade and it's the car we tend to choose to drive for short distance errands. We like it by all means, but when one of us needs to take the hybrid car for a weekend or a local business trip, we still have to plan out to make sure the other can manage whatever we need to do with just the BEV. As dboreham says in the sibling comment, the range anxiety morphs into charger-availability anxiety. Even if I know a charger physically exists at my destination, if it's 45% or more of the range away, I still need to worry that it will be working, that my access will work, that it won't be occupied or blocked, etc. In nearly 40 years of driving, I almost never researched gasoline availability (through the Nevada desert and in Central America, I did). In a little over a decade of BEV driving, I've done a lot of EVSE (charger) researching. | |
| ▲ | dboreham 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It isn't really "range" anxiety, rather "no charger available" anxiety. Today, if I run out of petrol|gasoline somewhere, even if I'm in the middle of nowhere and don't have a gas can, I can still recover from that situation within an hour or so (hitch a ride to the next gas station, buy gas can, fill with gas, hitch back to my vehicle). With an EV the density of fueling/charging locations is orders of magnitude lower than for gas, and if I end up discharged I'm looking at finding a flat bed truck, or perhaps a mobile high power generator. Disclosure: I own both kinds of vehicles. | |
| ▲ | Sohcahtoa82 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Eh, I'd say it goes away after your first road trip, unless you're going somewhere remote. I've had my BEV for about 5 1/2 years. My first road trip (Portland -> Santa Clara, ~560 miles each way), I planned it out ahead of time with ABRP. These days, I'll just let the nav figure it out. | | |
| ▲ | recursive 2 days ago | parent [-] | | First time I did an EV road trip, I just plugged it straight into the car screen and followed directions. I didn't have anyone with me, and was willing to accept some degree of "adventure". I did about 800 miles in a day, and had zero real issues. I have been totally unconcerned about it since. |
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| ▲ | jansan 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Maybe because people don't want to have oil changes, emission checks, exhaust gas etc. on their EV. If they really need a long range, they will probably just buy a combustion engine car. |
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| ▲ | JoBrad 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Perhaps, but other than the upcoming Scout, I’m not even sure it’s an option for EVs, in the US. | | |
| ▲ | tehwebguy 2 days ago | parent [-] | | BMW i3 has/had a REX version and when I researched it people seemed to agree it’s the least reliable part about owning it. But that might be it! |
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| ▲ | quickthrowman 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| One 120V 2.2kW generator isn’t going do much at all. It’s really actually 1.8kW which is 15A at 120V. You’d need to tow around a 7.2kW 240V for 30A at 240V (more likely a 14.4kW generator for 240V 60A). Using the small Honda inverter generator (which is amazing for plenty of stuff!) is akin to covering your car in solar panels to get range extension, the math just doesn’t work out. |